Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories
Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 01:50 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Just put out on Dr. Eades' blog: Low Carb and Calories

"The low-carb diet is a wonderful, healthful way to lose weight quickly, but you do have to watch your calories as well to a certain extent. If your plugging along losing away, keep doing what you

It is ALL about the insulin. Everyone knows that but 'can't we all get along' Ornish. Atkins got it. Ornish doesn't have a clue.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 02:33 PM


Administrator


I cut out all my nuts, basically, and have also reduced my cheese consumption after Dr. Richard Feinman mentioned it a couple of months ago in a post at my blog about what Dr. Eades does for his patients who struggle to lose:

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/20...-carb.html

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
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RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 04:11 PM


Unregistered

 
Oh, I strongly disagree with Dr. Eades on this one and I told him so. Here's why:

It all started innocently enough with this e-mail:

[i]I
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 05:03 PM


Junior Low-Carber


"You might have had too many nuts, too much cheese or something, but come on!"

.....or butter!! Lol!!!

Hey Charles....great post....instructive, plainspoken.....perfect!

Do you think that if every day you ate 7k calories of fatty meat only (fatty meat....no butter, no eggs, nothing but fatty meat...let's say 70% fat)......you still wouldn't gain weight?


CHEERS!

David
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 05:35 PM


Expert Low-Carber


So, in short, it is all about the insulin.

Cut the carbs if you are in a stall - to zero if necessary. Hyperinsulinemia is the root cause of stalls and lack of weight loss.

It is ALL about the insulin. Everyone knows that but 'can't we all get along' Ornish. Atkins got it. Ornish doesn't have a clue.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 06:19 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


That's rich! Eades recommending an all meat diet- I love it!
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 06:35 PM


Moderator


(Get the wet noodles out. Here it comes.)

I think Dr. Eades makes a reasonable point in this article that is consistent with what Dr. Atkins wrote about calories.

I also think this article very helpful for some of us who were wounded by "The double wide Russian Bride" and now fear ANY amount of calorie restriction as a one way ticket to health problems and eating disorders.

I've found that limiting carbs and calories are both required for me to lose in the past. Either one without the other has not been effective for me. Calorie restriction without carb restriction results in weight GAIN. Carb restriction without calorie restrictions results in no change.

As much as I hate tracking calories, I'm going to go back to it and see if it helps.

Let the wet noodle lashing begin...
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 06:47 PM


Unregistered

 
sugarfreelife Wrote:"You might have had too many nuts, too much cheese or something, but come on!"

.....or butter!! Lol!!!

Hey Charles....great post....instructive, plainspoken.....perfect!

Do you think that if every day you ate 7k calories of fatty meat only (fatty meat....no butter, no eggs, nothing but fatty meat...let's say 70% fat)......you still wouldn't gain weight?


CHEERS!

David

I would gain weight eating 7k calories of fatty meat only. However, just as they found with Ethan Sims's experiments, it was very difficult to get people to add a thousand calories of fat to their daily all-meat diet. In fact, he publically challenged anyone to do an overfeeding study with just meat. He said, "you can't do it. I think it's a physical impossibility." Those people fattening on a carbohydrate and fat regimen easily added 2,000 calories a day to their typical diet. Indeed, some of the subjects even experienced hunger late in the day even though they had as much as 10,000 calories day!

Moreover, when the experiments ended, all the subjects "lost weight readily." Sims said "with the same alacrity as that with which obese patients typically return to their usual weights after semi-starvation diets.

This is indeed my experience. Most people increase fat along with carbohydrates and this is where they go wrong. If you increase your fat intake, you must decrease your carbohydrate intake or you'll gain weight. The carbohydrates keep the fat trapped in fat tissue. When you remove the carbohydrates, you can eat all the fat you want, but it can't come from cheese and nuts because there are carbohydrates present.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 06:56 PM


Unregistered

 
MAC Wrote:So, in short, it is all about the insulin.

Cut the carbs if you are in a stall - to zero if necessary. Hyperinsulinemia is the root cause of stalls and lack of weight loss.

Did you see the little part about the "non-caloric beverages?"
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 07:06 PM


Unregistered

 
Hogsfan Wrote:(Get the wet noodles out. Here it comes.)

I think Dr. Eades makes a reasonable point in this article that is consistent with what Dr. Atkins wrote about calories.

I also think this article very helpful for some of us who were wounded by "The double wide Russian Bride" and now fear ANY amount of calorie restriction as a one way ticket to health problems and eating disorders.

I've found that limiting carbs and calories are both required for me to lose in the past. Either one without the other has not been effective for me. Calorie restriction without carb restriction results in weight GAIN. Carb restriction without calorie restrictions results in no change.

I don't do noodles. However, I think that if you do eat any amount of carbohydrates, you should be concerned about your fat intake. Yes, you read that correctly.

It's been proven time and again that carbohydrates and fat are a deadly duo. There's no sense in "upping your fat intake" if you're going to eat carbohydrates. Your hyperinsulnemia will keep you from utilizing that fat for energy as you should. This would explain why you can "decrease your calories" and have some success. Any time you decrease calories, you are necessarily decreasing carbohydrates.

Therefore, if you do increase your fat intake, you have to lower your carbohydrate intake to allow your body to use those fats. This explains the observations that Dr. Eades and the "experts" have taken into account. This also explains why he can turn around and recommend an all-meat diet to fix the issue.

The problem with all of that is I don't believe there is a diet for "weight loss" and a diet for "maintenance." What works for weight loss will work for maintenance. Changing things during maintenance will lead you right back to weight loss.

Blackburn and Bistrian proved this very thing by altering the ratio in their test subjects. A diet of 800 calories of fat and protein will take care of your hunger and allow you to lose a great deal of weight. However, if you take that 800 and add 400 calories of carbohydrates, you will be on a starvation diet (similar to Keys and Benedict's), you'll feel all the effects of food deprivation and your chance of weight loss goes down to 1 in 10.

The only time you don't have to be concerned with calories (read: ratio) is when you are eating fat and protein only.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 07:09 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Charles Wrote:
MAC Wrote:So, in short, it is all about the insulin.

Cut the carbs if you are in a stall - to zero if necessary. Hyperinsulinemia is the root cause of stalls and lack of weight loss.

Did you see the little part about the "non-caloric beverages?"

Yes, but now that you point it out, that means water. Everything else short of water has calories. Black coffee is usually regarded as non-caloric but there has to be some carbs there. So there you have it. The best regime. Meat and water. Recommended by Eades no less but in reality the Charles recommendation:-)

It is ALL about the insulin. Everyone knows that but 'can't we all get along' Ornish. Atkins got it. Ornish doesn't have a clue.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 07:35 PM


Moderator


Charles Wrote:I would gain weight eating 7k calories of fatty meat only. However, just as they found with Ethan Sims's experiments, it was very difficult to get people to add a thousand calories of fat to their daily all-meat diet.
Please explain why you would gain weight if you ate 7,000 calories of fatty meat but why someone couldn't gain weight eating 6,000, 5,000, 4,000, 3,000 or possibly as little as 2,000 calories worth of fatty meat? Where is the line drawn between losing weight, maintaining weight and gaining weight on any given amount of fatty protein and vl carbs?

My sites:
Linda's Low Carb Menus & Recipes
In the Kitchen with Linda Blog
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 07:41 PM


Moderator


Charles Wrote:This would explain why you can "decrease your calories" and have some success. Any time you decrease calories, you are necessarily decreasing carbohydrates.

You lost me here. I can decrease my calories without decreasing my carbs. All i have to do is eat LESS meat and like 4 blueberries.

Are you honestly taking the position that the only dietary influence on fat loss is the amount of carbs someone eats?

So if the average man eats 400 calories (100 carbs) of rice day and that's it, at the end of the week you think he will weigh more (because he is eating carbs) and not less (because he is lowering calories)?

Surely not. Carbs are more important but calories matter. You can produce studies all day long that say other wise but you can not make that man eating only 400 calories of rice a day any fatter.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 07:44 PM


Moderator


[quote=Dr. Eades]Second, they start fiddling with the diet. At first, the luxury of eating steak, bacon, whole eggs, real butter and all the rest of the high-fat foods that go along with low-carbing is enough to keep most people satisfied

My sites:
Linda's Low Carb Menus & Recipes
In the Kitchen with Linda Blog
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 08:37 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


Charles Wrote:Blackburn and Bistrian proved this very thing by altering the ratio in their test subjects. A diet of 800 calories of fat and protein will take care of your hunger and allow you to lose a great deal of weight. However, if you take that 800 and add 400 calories of carbohydrates, you will be on a starvation diet (similar to Keys and Benedict's), you'll feel all the effects of food deprivation and your chance of weight loss goes down to 1 in 10.

I find it hard to believe that 800 calories of fat and protein could be satisfying. Has anyone here tried it?
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-28-2008 09:59 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


When I hit a stall - had carb down to below 15 per day I did the Atkins fat fast 1000 cal per day - 5 meals. Did it for two days and wasn't hungry at all - it kick started my weight lose again. Never tried 800 though - but a 1000 was just fine for me
I do between 1300 and 15000 per day and I am still losing a small amount per week but I am just about at my goal now. I am never hungry on that amount and very happy to stick with it
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-29-2008 12:26 AM


Junior Low-Carber


Charles, I love your posts.

Honestly, I've followed Eades' blog for quite a while now, and I must admit I'm a bit tired of the filip-flopping back and forth between low carbs being the only way to go, then "reducing calories will help." In fact a few months ago, Dr. Eades had a very heated public debate with "The Omnivore" Anthony Colpo on this very issue, with Anthony telling us calories certainly count, and Dr. Eades countering this point.

So, do we watch BOTH carbs and calories now? I'm a bit tired of it after a while, and it does get a bit confusing.

After counting calories for most of my life I just don't think I can go that route ever again. It's not worth the obsession.
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-29-2008 01:05 AM


Advanced Low-Carber


Jonny Bowden in his book Living the low carb life style he thinks also that on low carb you have to watch you cals. Most folks according to all the stuff I have read can do more cals on low carb - depending on your own bio chemistary - I can do 300-400 more than on the low fat rubbish or on the low GI I did for ages. The other thing too if I do over eat when I go out - though I never cheat on my carb count - it doesn't seem to affect me - so the whole thing is very forgiving. The big difference too is that I am never hungry on low carb so I just don't want to eat that much anyway - I couldn't eat all of my 500 cal lunch today for example and yet this morning I went for a one hour power walk. Actually I find that walking really decreases my appetite.
The health benefits and the way I feel now - which is the best I have EVER felt in the whole of my adult life is worth doing this for - I don't know of a drug available that would have done that for me. Also I am getting into a Eurpean size 10 these days and that makes me happy no end
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-29-2008 02:09 AM


Moderator


cutthecarbs2008 Wrote:Charles, I love your posts.

Honestly, I've followed Eades' blog for quite a while now, and I must admit I'm a bit tired of the filip-flopping back and forth between low carbs being the only way to go, then "reducing calories will help." In fact a few months ago, Dr. Eades had a very heated public debate with "The Omnivore" Anthony Colpo on this very issue, with Anthony telling us calories certainly count, and Dr. Eades countering this point.

So, do we watch BOTH carbs and calories now? I'm a bit tired of it after a while, and it does get a bit confusing.

After counting calories for most of my life I just don't think I can go that route ever again. It's not worth the obsession.


I don't think I've ever read where Eades has said calories don't count. He and Atkins and Bowden have always said calories DO count...you just probably won't have to count them.

I think the debate with Colpo was (along with other things) whether or not there is a metabolic advantage to low carb. Eades' point on that if I remember correctly was something to the effect of "There is...but it's probably small...and I don't really feel like arguing about it."
RE: Dr. Eades on Low Carb and Calories , 05-29-2008 09:26 AM


Junior Low-Carber


Hogsfan, as I recall, one argument with Colpo was that Colpo insisted calories indeed do count and that was the bottom line, whereas Eades said there was a metabolic advantage to lowcarbing. But then again in his most recent post Eades goes on about the calories that can pile up in cheese, which obviously busts the metabolic advantage theory, or maybe then again, the metabolic advantage is quite small. I don't know. I do admit I skim these blogs; will have to go back and read them more thoroughly!