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Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It??
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Post: #1 Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-29-2012 09:01 PM


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Hello,

I am 23 yr old male 5'10 weigh about 175lbs. Body Fat around 22%.

I have no fat anywhere in my body except a pretty big belly from overeating.

I recently started a low carb diet the Belly Fat Cure Fast Track by Jorge Cruise. It is similar to atkins - high fat/protein and veggies... no breads or wheat - avging about 35 net carbs a day mostly from greens and nuts)

I was losing about 1lb a day until about day 4 where I started feeling very weak. My heart was racing, was short of breath and felt dizzy. I immediately stopped the diet and started eating carbs again.

Upon further research, I learned that this was normal and it is commonly referred to as the Atkins Flu.

I am thinking about going back on this diet. However, I am worried about the Atkins flu coming back.

What dietary changes can I make this time to avoid the Atkins flu?? I have heard eating brocolli and chicken broth for potassium helps. Anything else?

Thanks
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Post: #2 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-29-2012 10:41 PM


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Make sure to eat extra salt if you start feeling that way again.
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Post: #3 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 01:15 AM


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Just ease into it a bit more. It may just be the body adapting to different fuel, which is what you want. Try eating some protein instead of adding back carbs. I like to keep deviled eggs and tuna around if I feel like I need something right then.
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Post: #4 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 01:38 AM


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(04-30-2012 01:15 AM)DFH Wrote:  Just ease into it a bit more. It may just be the body adapting to different fuel, which is what you want. Try eating some protein instead of adding back carbs. I like to keep deviled eggs and tuna around if I feel like I need something right then.



are you suggesting slowly decreasing my carb intake? I have just recently started doing this. Before I started dieting, i was having 200-250 g carbs a day. Last week, i bumped it down to 100g and this week I will try to avg around 75-80.

If all goes well, I will keep decreasing this way.

Does this sound okay?
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Post: #5 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 06:50 AM


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(04-30-2012 01:38 AM)smullick Wrote:  
(04-30-2012 01:15 AM)DFH Wrote:  Just ease into it a bit more. It may just be the body adapting to different fuel, which is what you want. Try eating some protein instead of adding back carbs. I like to keep deviled eggs and tuna around if I feel like I need something right then.



are you suggesting slowly decreasing my carb intake? I have just recently started doing this. Before I started dieting, i was having 200-250 g carbs a day. Last week, i bumped it down to 100g and this week I will try to avg around 75-80.

If all goes well, I will keep decreasing this way.

Does this sound okay?

Seems reasonable. You should adapt pretty fast.

You want to make sure the food you picked for low carb is real food. You didn't post your specific food choices but that's a given.
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Post: #6 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 11:56 AM


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Addiction is difficult to get over. The brain response to carbs is eerily similar to that of some illegal drugs. Mix this "rehab" process with the body switching fuel sources entirely, and you've got Atkins flu. Just bear with it, and it will be over soon enough.
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Post: #7 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 07:01 PM


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I think everyone should change to using COCONUT oil or get some MCT oil.
It takes a while for the body to get used to burning fat for fuel.
If you provide it with some medium chain triglycerides either from Coconut oil or from MCT oil BEFORE and during the initial stages it should prevent the brain from running out of fuel as it will have an alternative fuel readily available.

There could also be a problem with gut flora. If we've been eating and inflammatory omega 6 rich diet and we suddenly change to an anti-inflammatory diet the pathogenic gut flora that thrive in acidic inflamatory situations will be taking a hit and finding life is tough while it will be a time before the more friendly bacteria that thrive in a less acidic inflamatory situation become established. Changing your gut flora generally takes a lot longer than ketoadaptation so be persistant. Plenty of yoghurt and other fermented food will speed the job up. But the initial detoxification process can make you feel crap initially.
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Post: #8 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 04-30-2012 08:47 PM


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(04-30-2012 06:50 AM)DFH Wrote:  
(04-30-2012 01:38 AM)smullick Wrote:  
(04-30-2012 01:15 AM)DFH Wrote:  Just ease into it a bit more. It may just be the body adapting to different fuel, which is what you want. Try eating some protein instead of adding back carbs. I like to keep deviled eggs and tuna around if I feel like I need something right then.



are you suggesting slowly decreasing my carb intake? I have just recently started doing this. Before I started dieting, i was having 200-250 g carbs a day. Last week, i bumped it down to 100g and this week I will try to avg around 75-80.

If all goes well, I will keep decreasing this way.

Does this sound okay?

Seems reasonable. You should adapt pretty fast.

You want to make sure the food you picked for low carb is real food. You didn't post your specific food choices but that's a given.


My diet (CURRENTLY) looks more or less like this:

Breakfast:

2 Egg whites, 1 Whole Egg Fried with mushrooms, onions, green pepper and fat free cheese.

1 Whole Wheat Pita Bread - 30g of carbs
(I know..I know I will eventually eliminate this....i used to eat LOTS of carbs so I am trying to wean off)

Snack

Protein Shake - Unsweetened Almond Milk with Gold Standard Whey Protein (25G of Protein, 1G of Sugar, and 4g of Carbs)

Salted Cashew Nuts 1/4 cup

Lunch

Spinach Salad with Grilled Chicken Breast, Green Peppers, Onions, Mushrooms

Snack

Fat Free String Cheese

Dinner

Salmon
Hummus


(04-30-2012 07:01 PM)tedhutchinson Wrote:  I think everyone should change to using COCONUT oil or get some MCT oil.
It takes a while for the body to get used to burning fat for fuel.
If you provide it with some medium chain triglycerides either from Coconut oil or from MCT oil BEFORE and during the initial stages it should prevent the brain from running out of fuel as it will have an alternative fuel readily available.

There could also be a problem with gut flora. If we've been eating and inflammatory omega 6 rich diet and we suddenly change to an anti-inflammatory diet the pathogenic gut flora that thrive in acidic inflamatory situations will be taking a hit and finding life is tough while it will be a time before the more friendly bacteria that thrive in a less acidic inflamatory situation become established. Changing your gut flora generally takes a lot longer than ketoadaptation so be persistant. Plenty of yoghurt and other fermented food will speed the job up. But the initial detoxification process can make you feel crap initially.


Thanks, I will start using coconut oil. What kind of yogurt do you recommend? I used to eat Greek Yogurt, but noticed it has a lot of sugar. Currently I am not eating any yogurt.
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Post: #9 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-01-2012 11:08 AM


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Ouch, no wonder the diet isn't working. You are starving yourself of fat and piling on the protein. Maybe do that if you are a thyroid/hormone wreck and have some repairing to do first, but to lean out, I don't see it working unless you hardly eat.

Eat whole eggs not egg whites. That was so 20 years ago. Get plain full fat greek yogurt from a natural store and flavor it with something sugarless. Drop the whey protein (insulin spiking) drink and eat real food. The wheat pita bread needs to go asap. I was still trying to hang on to those myself and they were making me sick. Throw away the fat free string cheese and get some hard imported cheese like Romano.

If you are dying for carbs, have a potato or some squash, real food.

I like hummus too but go easy on it.

I think the whey protein is OK for young gym dwellers who are working out and need more protein. You don't want to use it as a meal replacement, especially if the diet is mostly all protein to start with.
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Post: #10 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-01-2012 05:54 PM


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(05-01-2012 11:08 AM)DFH Wrote:  Ouch, no wonder the diet isn't working. You are starving yourself of fat and piling on the protein. Maybe do that if you are a thyroid/hormone wreck and have some repairing to do first, but to lean out, I don't see it working unless you hardly eat.

Eat whole eggs not egg whites. That was so 20 years ago. Get plain full fat greek yogurt from a natural store and flavor it with something sugarless. Drop the whey protein (insulin spiking) drink and eat real food. The wheat pita bread needs to go asap. I was still trying to hang on to those myself and they were making me sick. Throw away the fat free string cheese and get some hard imported cheese like Romano.

If you are dying for carbs, have a potato or some squash, real food.

I like hummus too but go easy on it.

I think the whey protein is OK for young gym dwellers who are working out and need more protein. You don't want to use it as a meal replacement, especially if the diet is mostly all protein to start with.

Okay i will switch to whole eggs. Keep in mind that I am not yet fully on the low carb diet. I am trying to ease into it.

I am consuming 50-70g of fat a day. 10-13g of it is Saturated fat.
How much should I be taking in?

I'm keeping protein intake appx 1g for every pound of my body
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Post: #11 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-01-2012 07:15 PM


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I have been in and out of a 'ketoadapted diet" several times in the last 20 years. I feel the same way about carbs as the folks I counsel giving up drugs. Just do it... cold turkey. 20-30 carbs a day (or less) will push you into fat-burning quicker...and while it may be transiently painful, once the adaptation is done you will not have to deal with it again so long as you regulate your carb intake.

Peter Attia (The War on Insulin guy) talked about how sick and miserable he felt when trying to keto-adapt in his podcast appearance with Jimmy. In the end simple adjustments to his diet helped him over the hump after weeks of "induction flu". You might look at what Phinney & Volek have to say about the length of time required for keto-adaptation in "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" for ideas and suggestions.

I don't presume to be an authority, but my experience tells me you are just prolonging the pain by trying to "taper down" on your carbs. Ask folks in alcohol or drug recovery how well they do "cutting back" on drinking or drugging. The successful folks all eventually come to the same conclusion.... you just quit.

And watch the fat to protein ratio. DHF knows their stuff and too much protein can drag you down as easily as too many carbs (that whole gluco-neogenesis thing).

FYI - I went cold-turkey on carbs 1-1-12 and have 35+ pounds wt loss in 4 months and feeling great. There was a week or two in January when the room spun every time I stood up, but I paid a little more attention to my electrolytes (Salt in particular) and it passed. I've been in a very level place for a couple of months now.
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Post: #12 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-01-2012 07:38 PM


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(05-01-2012 05:54 PM)smullick Wrote:  
(05-01-2012 11:08 AM)DFH Wrote:  Ouch, no wonder the diet isn't working. You are starving yourself of fat and piling on the protein. Maybe do that if you are a thyroid/hormone wreck and have some repairing to do first, but to lean out, I don't see it working unless you hardly eat.

Eat whole eggs not egg whites. That was so 20 years ago. Get plain full fat greek yogurt from a natural store and flavor it with something sugarless. Drop the whey protein (insulin spiking) drink and eat real food. The wheat pita bread needs to go asap. I was still trying to hang on to those myself and they were making me sick. Throw away the fat free string cheese and get some hard imported cheese like Romano.

If you are dying for carbs, have a potato or some squash, real food.

I like hummus too but go easy on it.

I think the whey protein is OK for young gym dwellers who are working out and need more protein. You don't want to use it as a meal replacement, especially if the diet is mostly all protein to start with.

Okay i will switch to whole eggs. Keep in mind that I am not yet fully on the low carb diet. I am trying to ease into it.

I am consuming 50-70g of fat a day. 10-13g of it is Saturated fat.
How much should I be taking in?

I'm keeping protein intake appx 1g for every pound of my body

I don't have specs on macros, you need to work that out. Things don't add up. You said you did 50-70g a day, but look at the menu above it and find it. You described a low fat-high protein-low carb plan that looks like south beach.

No food products in the house should be the low fat processed stuff, it's Frankenfood.
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Post: #13 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-02-2012 07:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2012 07:59 PM by tam.)


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Be careful you don't compromise your immune system: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=1077

Your problems could also be candida saying that it's hungry.

It wouldn't hurt to talk to a doctor. Maybe a holistic one, but they can cost.
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Post: #14 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-03-2012 07:20 PM


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I used Jorge Cruise's Belly Fat Cure (NOT the Fast Track) first, and then transitioned into low carb and had NO low carb flu symptoms. I think BFC gets you down to about 60 grams of carbs a day net, but I realized I was eating fewer after a few weeks, so it was easy just to bring it down to the 20 to 30 I do now. Easy Peasy, and I was a HUGE carb burner.

As far as fat, you can figure that out. Use a good BMR calculator to figure out how many calories you should be eating--I like this one: http://www.phlaunt.com/lowcarb/DietMakeupCalc.php because it's specifically designed for low carbers. Use the number of calories calculated to lose weight as your MINIMUM number of calories, don't go below that! Going above is OK, if you can (in ketosis your hunger will be diminished) and you will find your own limits for satiety and stalling weight loss.

OK, now you know how many calories you need, and you should have some idea of how many grams of carbs you will have each day. Multiply the carb grams by 4 to find out how many calories are carbs, and subtract those from your minimum level of calories. Now do the same for protein (4 calories per gram of protein you plan to eat each day). What's left MUST be fat, because that's the only macronutrient left. It's probably a lot more than you thought (fat, BTW is roughly 9 calories per gram). Fat is good for you, don't be afraid!

That fat can come from any clean, healthy source: saturated animal fats are fine, primarily from pastured, grass fed and grass finished animals, including cream, butter, tallow, lard, schmaltz, and WHOLE eggs. Fish is great, particularly cold water fish. Seafood is fine. Olive oil is great to put on foods after cooking, but cooking can break it down and oxidize it. Coconut oil is great. AVOID polyunsaturated fats like nut and seed oils including "heart healthy" canola oil (it's not heart healthy at all!). No transfats.

Don't avoid salt, either. You need it, particularly at first when your body is transitioning. Lack of salt and potassium is one reason for carb flu symptoms. And, as you phase all the processed food out of your diet, you will find that you are more sensitive to the taste of salt, but it tastes GREAT on food (in reasonable quantities). Enjoy it.
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Post: #15 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-03-2012 11:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 11:25 PM by jo60.)


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After 1.5 year and my 3rd restart on low carb I have learned the best way to "ease" into it. is full speed ahead.

cold turkey..hi fat..absolutely no bread, grains, wheat, flour packaged, processed anything.
no fruit, fruit juice, sweetner

lots of fat..yep coconut oil, plain good yogurt, hi fat cheese, eat fat when hungry..I would not personally eat hi carb veg..(one of my weanesses )stuff yourself with fresh greens and lots of olive oil/cheese

(05-01-2012 11:08 AM)DFH Wrote:  Ouch, no wonder the diet isn't working. You are starving yourself of fat and piling on the protein. Maybe do that if you are a thyroid/hormone wreck and have some repairing to do first, but to lean out, I don't see it working unless you hardly eat.

Eat whole eggs not egg whites. That was so 20 years ago. Get plain full fat greek yogurt from a natural store and flavor it with something sugarless. Drop the whey protein (insulin spiking) drink and eat real food. The wheat pita bread needs to go asap. I was still trying to hang on to those myself and they were making me sick. Throw away the fat free string cheese and get some hard imported cheese like Romano.

If you are dying for carbs, have a potato or some squash, real food.

I like hummus too but go easy on it.

I think the whey protein is OK for young gym dwellers who are working out and need more protein. You don't want to use it as a meal replacement, especially if the diet is mostly all protein to start with.

(05-01-2012 05:54 PM)smullick Wrote:  Okay i will switch to whole eggs. Keep in mind that I am not yet fully on the low carb diet. I am trying to ease into it.

I am consuming 50-70g of fat a day. 10-13g of it is Saturated fat.
How much should I be taking in?

I'm keeping protein intake appx 1g for every pound of my body

I am 61 and yesterday had a whopping 216 g of fat, 26 net carb, and about 87 protein
today half that on all counts with supper in the bin.

Yep I was a "bit concerned about "all that great amount of fat" but today I have zero food cravings at all for anything..(other than my 11% fat greek yogurt/coconut milk/shredded coconut with a splash of vanilla/stevia-pudding)which is my new desert.
I have managed to eat 1000 calories including dinner today. 87 F, 15 Nt carbs, 30 protein -
well under half of what I ate yesterday. same ratio more or less.

My restart was 8 days ago and I kept the fat a bit lowish the first few days.
I have kept my carbs well under 10%, fat around 80 and protein 20.when I first went on low carb I did the same as you thinking I would 'ease in" and just have a little of this and a little of that now and then.
i was eating around 70 net carbs for several months but would always end up having a binge of hi carb for several weeks. and starting again.

wheat esp IMHO will keep you craving sweets and higher carb foods longer.
this time I decided to give that up esp after reading Wheat Belly by Davis. I new from low carb i was gluten intolernat as when I went without a lot of aches and stiffness vanished. wheat belly taks about addicting/messing up your metabolism etc..
cannot really say that my "flu" is too much different with any of my approaches. I think it does take a good couple of weeks plus..to settle in and then more time for further tweaking and full metabolic adaptation.


I eat Olympic Krema 11% fat plain greek yogurt. I eat it plain or somtimes with a drop or 2 of stevia and vanilla.
Greek Gods is another hi fat..look for plain minimum 6% fat should be milk, cream , LIVE bacterial culture ingredients, no guar gum or added sweetner (pectin is ok in my mind)

the fermenting process actually reduces the free lactose (sugar) hard to say exactly by how much but 50-75% from sources I have come across.
The values on the label are therefore lower than stated.
third time lucky!
Not an expert in anything _ Jo
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Post: #16 RE: Atkins Flu - Possible to Avoid It?? , 05-23-2012 04:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2012 04:51 AM by NamibEl.)


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(04-30-2012 07:01 PM)tedhutchinson Wrote:  I think everyone should change to using COCONUT oil or get some MCT oil.
It takes a while for the body to get used to burning fat for fuel.
If you provide it with some medium chain triglycerides either from Coconut oil or from MCT oil BEFORE and during the initial stages it should prevent the brain from running out of fuel as it will have an alternative fuel readily available.

There could also be a problem with gut flora. If we've been eating and inflammatory omega 6 rich diet and we suddenly change to an anti-inflammatory diet the pathogenic gut flora that thrive in acidic inflamatory situations will be taking a hit and finding life is tough while it will be a time before the more friendly bacteria that thrive in a less acidic inflamatory situation become established. Changing your gut flora generally takes a lot longer than ketoadaptation so be persistant. Plenty of yoghurt and other fermented food will speed the job up. But the initial detoxification process can make you feel crap initially.

could this explain a phlegmy, persistent cough. i've had it checked out at the doctors, there is nothing in my lungs?
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