Post Reply 
Rating Thread Options
Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation?
Author Message
Post: #1 Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 04:44 AM


Advanced Low-Carber
***

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan 2012
I've read many many many articles and literature on the matter of ketosis adaptation. I've read that it can take anywhere from 2 weeks to 2-3 months for someone's body to fully switch over to preferring ketones for it's primary fuel source. Early on while not adapted, while in ketosis, your body will still rely on (dietary AND muscular) proteins and break it down for energy. Once keto-adapted, the body will need a lot less protein to feed the cells and rely more heavily on ketones. This brings a very muscle sparing effect while losing weight. Plus your heart and brain will be running more efficiently.

My question is this, and I've looked everywhere for the answer but nobody ever touches upon it (at least that I've found):
What happens when you are keto-adapted and you have a cheat meal/day that kicks you completely out of ketosis for a couple days? Is your body so carb adapted from a lifetime of carb eating that it will quickly switch back to the non ketosis days? Or will you be back to a close level of keto-adaption once you are back into ketosis?

Basically, after a couple months of VLCing and constant ketosis without any hiccups, will one cheat take you back to square once completely (no keto-adaption whatsoever)?

If you could provide links to articles, studies, or anything like that, that would be a huge extra for me!

(PS, this isn't intended to be a conversation of whether or not one should or shouldn't cheat, just the keto-adaptation repercussions of the act)

Thanks! Smile
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #2 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 10:11 AM


Unregistered

 
You could probably find a study to support any version you want, and you still wouldn't want to believe them.

It makes sense that humans, as omnivores, are adapted for variety. I dont think nature intended for humans to fall apart just because a tribe stumbles on a grove of fruit and finds it tasty.
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #3 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 11:16 AM


Expert Low-Carber
*****

Posts: 528
Joined: Aug 2011
Dr. Stephen Phinney talks about the body's process of coming back from cheating in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkdFkPxxDG8
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #4 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 03:37 PM


Advanced Low-Carber
***

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan 2012
(01-20-2012 10:11 AM)DFH Wrote:  You could probably find a study to support any version you want, and you still wouldn't want to believe them.

It makes sense that humans, as omnivores, are adapted for variety. I dont think nature intended for humans to fall apart just because a tribe stumbles on a grove of fruit and finds it tasty.

Thanks for the reply! I don't necessarily believe this, but I think some may argue that what you said used to be the case, but after a century of eating primarily carbs, our bodies have gotten used to processing carbs first and not know what to do with ketones (until fully adapted). And reversing keto-adaption is not much too easy for us. Again, not my opinion (I try to be unbiased to learn as much as I can), just throwing that theory out there to hear peoples thoughts.


(01-20-2012 11:16 AM)weeji Wrote:  Dr. Stephen Phinney talks about the body's process of coming back from cheating in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkdFkPxxDG8

Great video! I watched it all the way through. However, even he seems to say the evidence is inconclusive. He doesn't say 100% that you start back at square one. He just states that in his trials, people who had a vacation from the diet tended to have "unstable ketone levels in their blood" immediately after getting back on the diet. Not quite sure what that means exactly. He mentions the hard climb back to the top again, and that could be for various reasons. Eating carbs has increased your carb cravings, you are at the very least less keto-adapted, etc. I'm not being a skeptic, I'm just exploring all angles and not keeping a closed mind!

I did a bit of research just now and it would seem that people who are into Cyclical Ketogenic Diets report that people on the diet still go through the keto-adjustment period, but it just takes much longer since they are consistently loading back on carbs. Whether or not they get to the same level of adaption as a non cyclical diet, I couldn't find an answer to. Not sure if this was ever clinically tried or not and how they are measuring the amount of keto-adaption, but it would seem to point to evidence that you don't completely undo all your hard work in the last month or so of low carbing if you have one cheat.

Maybe if Jimmy runs across this he can give us his take on the matter? If I recall correctly, somewhere he said he has one cheat meal every couple months where he just has whatever he wants. I'm wondering if he feels like he has the ketogenic clarity (of mind) soon after the cheat day or if he feels he's starting all over. Anyone with similar experiences, I'd love to hear it!
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #5 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 03:50 PM


Expert Low-Carber
*****

Posts: 528
Joined: Aug 2011
I can tell you anecdotally that for the first 6 or so years of my diet, I included a cheat meal every week. Not really a full meal typically, but a side of fries or pasta with my main low carb dish. I still lost the weight effortlessly, so I'd say that its possible that its different for everybody. I wouldn't recommend that way of eating though, knowing what I know now about the detriments to general health of the kinds of foods I was eating. I'm just informing you that my weight loss was stable while cheating weekly.
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #6 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 05:16 PM


Unregistered

 
(01-20-2012 03:37 PM)bboylayz Wrote:  
(01-20-2012 10:11 AM)DFH Wrote:  You could probably find a study to support any version you want, and you still wouldn't want to believe them.

It makes sense that humans, as omnivores, are adapted for variety. I dont think nature intended for humans to fall apart just because a tribe stumbles on a grove of fruit and finds it tasty.

Thanks for the reply! I don't necessarily believe this, but I think some may argue that what you said used to be the case, but after a century of eating primarily carbs, our bodies have gotten used to processing carbs first and not know what to do with ketones (until fully adapted). And reversing keto-adaption is not much too easy for us. Again, not my opinion (I try to be unbiased to learn as much as I can), just throwing that theory out there to hear peoples thoughts.

As far as this part goes, no.

A century is not nearly enough time for a significant adaptation about how food is digested to take hold within a population. Nature doesn't move that fast. You can toss that theory right into the bin.

Agriculture started 8-10k years ago, and that is not enough time to adapt either. Of course there will always be some natural selection.

As far as individuals, one person shifting back and forth between keto or not, I dunno. I'm sure the term "everyone is different" matters here.
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #7 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 05:31 PM


Advanced Low-Carber
***

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan 2012
(01-20-2012 05:16 PM)DFH Wrote:  
(01-20-2012 03:37 PM)bboylayz Wrote:  Thanks for the reply! I don't necessarily believe this, but I think some may argue that what you said used to be the case, but after a century of eating primarily carbs, our bodies have gotten used to processing carbs first and not know what to do with ketones (until fully adapted). And reversing keto-adaption is not much too easy for us. Again, not my opinion (I try to be unbiased to learn as much as I can), just throwing that theory out there to hear peoples thoughts.

As far as this part goes, no.

A century is not nearly enough time for a significant adaptation about how food is digested to take hold within a population. Nature doesn't move that fast. You can toss that theory right into the bin.

Theory tossed Smile
Quote this message in a reply
Post: #8 RE: Ketosis Adaptation and RE-adaptation? , 01-20-2012 07:57 PM


Expert Low-Carber
*****

Posts: 500
Joined: Feb 2010
(01-20-2012 05:31 PM)bboylayz Wrote:  
(01-20-2012 05:16 PM)DFH Wrote:  
(01-20-2012 03:37 PM)bboylayz Wrote:  Thanks for the reply! I don't necessarily believe this, but I think some may argue that what you said used to be the case, but after a century of eating primarily carbs, our bodies have gotten used to processing carbs first and not know what to do with ketones (until fully adapted). And reversing keto-adaption is not much too easy for us. Again, not my opinion (I try to be unbiased to learn as much as I can), just throwing that theory out there to hear peoples thoughts.

As far as this part goes, no.

A century is not nearly enough time for a significant adaptation about how food is digested to take hold within a population. Nature doesn't move that fast. You can toss that theory right into the bin.

Theory tossed Smile

We adopt to new foods by not reproducing either because of dying outright before the appropriate age or health challenges that prevent reproduction. Whoopee for adaption to new foods.

Lean meat is the foundation of the Phalio Diet.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)


Archive Current time: 04-18-2014, 09:16 AM