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Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts.
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Post: #1 Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-21-2011 06:55 PM


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I'm grateful to the ever-informative Ted Hutchinson for indirectly setting me off on a path that got me looking first at Magnesium Bicarbonate
(e.g. his pointer to a recipe for making it:
http://www.afibbers.org/Wallerwater.pdf ), and alerting me to the possible dangers of being in an over-acid state (as detected by measuring saliva/urine - see the thread "Is low carb good for teeth and health?"
http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/sh...p?tid=3325 )


I got to looking at ways of "alkalizing" oneself, and it occurred to me that cheap and cheerful sodium bicarbonate, aka, baking soda, should be effective. However, a research paper pointed to (maybe indirectly) by one of Ted's many links, seemed to indicate that it was only potassium bicarbonate that was effective, at least to the extent of preventing calcium excretion in the urine. Nevertheless, it seems that humble baking soda could still be incredibly useful, at least according to one doctor. Have a look at this YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/IMVAPublications

and e.g. the video "Deficiência de Magnésio: Nenhum teste" (It's actually in English!).


I actually found that indirectly from this webpage (which I found looking for magnesium bicarbonate):

http://naturalallopathic.com/cms/index.p...Itemid=116


There's an interesting piece in there that says you can get the same (or maybe even better) effect as magnesium bicarbonate, by taking magnesium chloride and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) at slightly different times.


Also interesting, is that magnesium chloride (which some say is the most stable, and therefore the most bioavailable form of magnesium supplement) can also be very affectively taken externally, e.g in the bath, as MgCl salt crystals, or as an MgCL "oil" sprayed on to the skin. See here:

http://www.ancient-minerals.com/magnesium-benefits/

I notice that in the UK, Holland and Barrett have MgCl crystals for a relatively low price. However, tablets and the oil seem fairly expensive wherever you buy them. Worth shopping around I suppose.


(Oh, and according to Dr Mark Hyman on one of those YouTube videos, an Epsom Salts bath is a good source. Not seen that stuff since I was a kid. e.g. £7.60 for 2Kg on amazon.co.uk, so it's not going to break the bank. There is a (more expensive) food grade variety available for internal use. Just to make clear, Epsom Salts is the sulphate (sulfate) form of Mg, not the chloride).


Most dramatically perhaps, is the claimed importance of humble baking soda in the most serious diseases, according to Mark Sircus:

http://winningcancer.com/

http://publications.imva.info/index.php/...-book.html

Regards,
Mike


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Post: #2 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-26-2011 03:44 PM


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A couple notes about "alkalizing."

1) You can be too alkaline
2) Your body can acidify even though you are eating "alkalizing" foods supplement depending on your genetics

If you don't feel better "alkalizing" it may not be a healing reaction, it might be your body getting worse.

That said, by all means, experiment and find out what works for you.

Mackay Rippey

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Post: #3 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-26-2011 07:17 PM


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(10-26-2011 03:44 PM)Mackay Wrote:  A couple notes about "alkalizing."

1) You can be too alkaline
2) Your body can acidify even though you are eating "alkalizing" foods supplement depending on your genetics

If you don't feel better "alkalizing" it may not be a healing reaction, it might be your body getting worse.

That said, by all means, experiment and find out what works for you.


Thanks for the warning Mac, which I will heed.


I'm fairly sure my body is a bit inclined towards the acid side though, partly via eating lots of meat, and relatively few vegetables, and also (I'm afraid) through excessive drinking of black tea .


From the tests I've done, my saliva has been ranging from neutral to a little bit acid, whereas my urine has been well into the acid camp.

I think I'm going to try not to obsess over it, but just keep an eye on it from time to time (and experiment a bit).

Regards,
Mike


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Post: #4 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-27-2011 02:56 PM


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The gold standard in pH measurement is venous (used up) blood.

The problem with saliva and urine measurements is it's a bit like determining how dirty a house is by measuring the trash.

Mackay Rippey

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Check out the Kung Fu Weight Loss Guide to Resetting Your Body Clock
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Post: #5 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-27-2011 05:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2011 05:55 PM by montmorency.)


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(10-27-2011 02:56 PM)Mackay Wrote:  The gold standard in pH measurement is venous (used up) blood.

The problem with saliva and urine measurements is it's a bit like determining how dirty a house is by measuring the trash.


I did wonder about measuring the blood. I don't think the strips you can buy for saliva/urine would be any good for blood, would they? Is this something you'd have to get done at a lab?
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Post: #6 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 10-28-2011 12:49 PM


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Blood is a much different proposition. You need different equipment and cannot simply prick your finger. Sad

Mackay Rippey

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Check out the Kung Fu Weight Loss Guide to Resetting Your Body Clock
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Post: #7 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 11-17-2011 08:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2011 08:36 PM by pagebooks.)


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I contribute to a forum devoted to cardiac arrhythmia issues and Mg is near the top of the list of often discussed subjects. One thing about Mg that I learned on that forum is that a very large percentage (something on the order of 90%) of the total Mg in the body is intracellular. The common test for Mg measures only the Mg concentration in the blood and studies have shown that this measurement has a negligible correlation with amount of Mg residing inside cells. The same phenomenon occurs or course with calcium with most of the mineral residing in bones (hopefully) and the blood Ca measurement a very poor indicator bone density. Like Ca, it can take a long time to increase the intracellular concentrations of Mg. There are tests for intracelluar Mg (Google Exatest) but few doctors seem aware of this very important medical parameter. The general consensus on the cardiac arrhythmia forum is that its hard to raise intracelluar Mg but worth the trouble because its so important to cardiac physiology.

Josiah
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Post: #8 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 11-17-2011 09:42 PM


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Mg ingested in any of the different forms of Mg supplements is not particularly bio available. Mg not absorbed into the blood stream eventually enters the large intestine where the Mg compounds have a truly remarkable ability to absorb water. This is the well known laxative effect and the more Mg the more effect. Most adults reach bowel tolerance at about 500 mg of elemental Mg, however if you very gradually increase your Mg dose over a period of several month your lower bowel becomes adjusted and you might reasonably expect to tolerate 800mg or even a gram of elemental Mg. If you choose transdermal Mg and you don't supplement with ingested Mg above what a normal diet would provide, you'll have no bowel problems no matter how much transdermal Mg you absorb because excess Mg in the blood stream is handled by the kidneys. Two other mechanisms for upping your Mg are infusions and nebulizers.

Josiah
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Post: #9 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 11-17-2011 11:37 PM


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Yes, transdermal Mg sounds pretty interesting, although I still haven't tried it.

Your comment about the kidneys reminds me that people with damaged kidneys have to be careful about this sort of thing, and I assume this would also apply to transdermal Mg.
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Post: #10 RE: Magnesium revisited: Chloride; also humble baking soda...and Epsom Salts. , 11-18-2011 08:57 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2011 08:58 AM by tedhutchinson.)


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People with Atrial Fibulation have a symptom that indicates when calcium/magnesium balance is magnesium deficient.
Their understanding of magnesium uptake is worth reading. There is a section on transdermal application and I think it's a useful addition but as it's impossible to work our how much your body may be getting I prefer to back up with albion patent magnesium chelates in addition. Raising your intake gradually with smaller amounts taken with food should in time produce loose stools at which point is easy to back down on intake to the point stools are easy to pass but remain in good shape/consistency. Providing you keep in line with the suggested intakes Krispin suggestsI see no potential for toxicity.
The risks associated with magnesium deficiency particularly for vulnerable diabetes patients far outweigh the remote possibility of overdosing on magne]sium.
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