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Post: #1 ApoE genotype testing , 12-10-2010 10:10 PM


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Hi Folks! I have not posted in a couple of months. I was getting discouraged with my lipids and blood pressure elevating while following lowcarb to the T.

I went out to see Dr Davis and have been doing some chatting over at the track your plaque forum.

I did some blood tests recently and discovered that the reason my small dense LDL's would not go down on a higher SF diet is because I am an ApoE 4/4 genotype.

E4/E4's are the plaque formers.... in both the arteries and in the brain, they are the most likely to have heart disease and also most prone to developing Alzhiemers. My relatives have battled these same health conditions.

There are problems with absorption and metabolism of fats (specifically saturated) and fat soluble vitamins....which explains why my vitamin D levels refuse to budge above 32 despite taking 12,000 IU's of D per day since September.

Apo E4 E4's are also prone to rapid congnitive decline while on statins and they are also less responsive in getting the number to move on statins. There is some evidence that 4/4's have elevated LDL's as their body is trying to protect the brain since saturated fat is crucial to brain health and they have difficulty getting it there and instead it ends up in the arteries.

ApoE4/4 persons are very pro-inflammatory, therefore the control of inflammation/oxidation are key keeping associated diseases at bay. Controlling LDL (not necessarily ultra low) is important also in prevention and progression.

Genotype testing is fairly new and there is still a lot to be learned, but you can bet it will be a cutting edge omponent in disease prevention. If anyone here has done apoE genotype testing or knows more about it, I would appreciate your input.

Or if anyone has been following lowcarb..... or even ultra-lowcarb (as I was) and you are battling elevated bad lipids, elevated blood pressure, low vitamin D....you might consider getting apoE genotype testing.

One other strange thing about 4/4's is that they also get rapid elevations in small dense LDL while supplementing 0-3 from fish if doses are over 1,000mg. I was on 3,000mg per day.

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #2 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-11-2010 10:41 PM


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http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,...25,00.html

Page 58 describes that apoE4 genotype causes the body to form excessive AMYLOIDs. Enzymes in the body then cause amyloid proteins to breakdown, that then forms fragments that clump...and that becomes plaque.... in the brain.

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #3 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 12:54 AM


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(12-11-2010 10:41 PM)skcoe Wrote:  http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,...25,00.html

Page 58 describes that apoE4 genotype causes the body to form excessive AMYLOIDs. Enzymes in the body then cause amyloid proteins to breakdown, that then forms fragments that clump...and that becomes plaque.... in the brain.

Hi Kathy, welcome back. Interesting to hear of your findings.. did Dr. Davis recommend changing your diet? How does one with this genotype combat these issues, and get better blood test results?

Ellen
http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com
http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com
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Post: #4 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 02:52 AM


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Hi Ellen! I saw Dr Davis in August before my news of apoE 4/4. I went to seek his help since my small LDL had climbed over 1,800. I've been researching and still trying to find everything out. Less than 5% of the population are 4/4's. 4/4's have brains that are more adapted to ketosis.

From what I have read, these are some of the perameters for apoE 4/4's:

More than 1,000 mg Fish oil a day may be problematic, probabaly 500mg is a better range. This was a real shock to me, the thought that maybe fish oil is not good for everyone!

There is one other person on the TYP forum who is a double 4, her numbers have been most improved by: Total fat about 20% of total calories, keep effective carbs (starch+sugar) to 60 gms/day, that means a lot of veggies and a lot of lean meat and egg whites. Saturated fat goal is to stay <7% of total calories.

ApoE4/E4's have ancient bloodlines... most died off during the agricultural revolution since this bloodtype does not thrive on a grain based diet. That is why only >5% of our population is this genotype. ApoE 4's roots go WAY back, past the paleolithic hunters (high meat, high fat diet), to our simian ancestors (nuts,seeds,lots of veggies,lots of fiber,small amount animal protein (grubs).

Apo E/4 has many effects other than just elevated cholesterol and LDL's: it impacts the immune system, membrane biochemistry, etc. etc. It is very easy to be in a pro-inflammatory state, so I am paying particular attention to antioxidants --both in foods (LOTS and LOTS of high fiber greens and other dark colors; Of course....NO refined sugar or rapidly metabolizable starches; NO industrial oils; etc.) and supplements. My melatonin levles are way low and I've been taking melatonin as it is a strong antioxidant for the nervous system.

One issue I'm grappling with at the moment is what to do about fat soluble supplementation. Since double 4's have impaired absorption and metabolism of all the fat soluble supplements, this makes it a greater challenge to get enough...even with supplementation. I've been on Life Extension super-K 100-mcg, Now Foods bio E complex 600IU's plus tocotrienols and 12,000IU's of D. I'm not sure how much A to take to balance these other FS vitamins, i've been on 10,000IU's 3X per week so far.

I am also taking a lot of niacin (1,000mg immediate release) for the lipids. Taking phosphatidyl serine & 5 mg vinpocetin for brain health. 500mcg iodine (from kelp) per day to optimize thyroid levels.

Curcumin and vitamin D3 might help lower risk of Alzheimer's. Alcohol....any amount is not good.
The good news is that in epidemiologic studies, the increased cardiovascular risk of apo E4 was eradicated if the lipids and other risk factors were optimized.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=...5BTitle%5D

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #5 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 11:37 AM


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Very interesting Kathy! Welcome back and thanks for that info.

I'll try and dig up the article, but I came across one a while back that stated that O3's actually have a mild effect of promoting insulin resistance as well. That seems counter to other actions. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm....
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Post: #6 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 11:43 AM


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Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Oct 27. [Epub ahead of print]

Dietary omega-3 fatty acids and fish consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes.
Djoussé L, Gaziano JM, Buring JE, Lee IM.

Divisions of Aging and Preventive Medicine, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA.

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Although dietary omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids may confer some cardiovascular benefits, it is unclear whether these nutrients may also unfavorably affect risk of type 2 diabetes (T2D).

OBJECTIVE: We evaluated whether dietary omega-3 fatty acids and fish consumption were associated with increased risk of T2D.

DESIGN: This was a prospective study of 36,328 women (mean age: 54.6 y) who participated in the Women's Health Study and who were followed from 1992 to 2008. Incident T2D was self-reported and validated primarily through the collection of supplementary information from participants. Information on omega-3 and fish intakes was obtained by using a validated food-frequency questionnaire. We used Cox proportional hazard models to estimate adjusted relative risks.

RESULTS: During an average follow-up of 12.4 y, 2370 women developed T2D. Marine but not plant-based omega-3 fatty acids were positively associated with incident T2D. From the lowest to highest quintiles of marine omega-3 intake, the multivariable-adjusted hazard ratios (95% CIs) for T2D were 1.0 (referent), 1.17 (1.03, 1.33), 1.20 (1.05, 1.38), 1.46 (1.28, 1.66), and 1.44 (1.25, 1.65), respectively (P for trend < 0.0001). A similar association was observed with fish intake, but additional adjustment for docosahexaenoic acid led to the elimination of the association. The relation between marine omega-3 fatty acids and T2D was observed in hypertensive and nonhypertensive subjects and in women who reported infrequent fish consumption.

CONCLUSION: Our data suggest an increased risk of T2D with the intake of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, especially with higher intakes (?0.20 g omega-3/d or ?2 servings of fish/d). The Women's Health Study was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT00000479.

PMID: 20980491 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #7 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 11:49 AM


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(12-12-2010 11:37 AM)Low Carb Cheater Wrote:  Very interesting Kathy! Welcome back and thanks for that info.

I'll try and dig up the article, but I came across one a while back that stated that O3's actually have a mild effect of promoting insulin resistance as well. That seems counter to other actions. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm....

Hi Cheater! Yes, the more I read on 0-3 and 0-6 and the supposed correct ratios, the more confused I become. All I can say is too much of a good thing may not be good afterall. When we swing too far in one direction it causes more harm than good. Many on the TYP forum discovered LDL's rising on higher dose fish oil. Most stay under 3,000mg.

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #8 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 11:51 AM


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Omega-3 shows no diabetes prevention benefits: Harvard study
27-Aug-2009

Related topics: Research

Increased intakes of omega-3 fatty acids are not associated with a reduction in the risk of developing type-2 diabetes, according to new findings from Harvard.

Writing in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, researchers led by Frank Hu and Manas Kaushik report that high intakes of the fatty acids may actually be linked to a modest increase in diabetes.



“Given the beneficial effects of LCFA intake on many cardiovascular disease risk factors, the clinical relevance of this relation and its possible mechanisms require further investigation,” they wrote.



The study involved 195,204 American adults free from diabetes at the start of the study, and followed them for up to 18 years. Over the course of the study 9,380 people developed the disease, and increased intakes of the fatty acids, and fish intake, were associated with a ‘modest’ 20 per cent increase in type-2 diabetes, said the researchers.



Source: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
September 2009, Volume 90, Pages 613-620
“Long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, fish intake, and the risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus”
Authors: M. Kaushik, D. Mozaffarian, D. Spiegelman, J.E. Manson, W.C. Willett, F.B. Hu

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #9 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 11:53 AM


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2006 Presentation

HDL, LDL, TG, GLU, OGTT, Insulinemia, LDL-OXY, apoB, apoA1, inflammation CRP-IL6-TNFa, LDL Phenotype

% plasma(PhL) of Omega3

Random cohort




Slide 33 of 62
Omega3 in plasma increases with age. Older people eat more traditional diet

Slide 34 of 62
TG goes down with O3 plasma increasing
Glycemia goes up with O3 plasma increasing

Slide 35 of 62
Diabetes(fasting GLU) goes up with O3 plasma increasing

Slide 36 of 62
Obesity goes up with plasma O3 increasing

Slide 37 of 62
IMT, Atherosclerosis

Slide 41 of 62
Carotid Intimal Medial Thickness goes up with Fasting GLU

Slide 42 of 62
Carotid Intimal Medial Thickness goes up with plasma Omega3 increasing

Slide 43 of 62
Carotid Intimal Medial Thickness goes up with inflammation increasing...
What is correlation with plasma Omega3 of previous slide?

Slide 44 of 62
LDL Phenotype

Slide 44 of 62
Carotid Intimal Medial Thickness goes up with LDL size decreasing
Why does this happen with plasma Omega3 increasing





Source Study http://www.arcticnet.ulaval.ca/pdf/talks...y_eric.pdf

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #10 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 12:02 PM


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Hopefully sometime soon genotype testing will more widely used. Sure helps demonstrate why one diet is not right for everyone. Interesting information.
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Post: #11 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 12-12-2010 08:48 PM


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Yes....we need to eat right for our bloodtype, genotype & metabolic type.

You know how opposites attract???? It makes me wonder just how compatible married people can actually be with regards to diet. Since mainly women grocery shop and make most of the meal planning decisions..... makes you wonder if women are inadvertantly killing off their spouses!!!

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
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Post: #12 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 07-28-2013 01:02 PM


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I know this post is a few years old but I have the APO E E4/E4 and think it's great that I have found another E4/E4... There is so little information out there for us.
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Post: #13 RE: ApoE genotype testing , 07-28-2013 05:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-28-2013 05:52 PM by MargieAnne.)


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Quote:Yes....we need to eat right for our bloodtype, genotype & metabolic type.

You know how opposites attract???? It makes me wonder just how compatible married people can actually be with regards to diet. Since mainly women grocery shop and make most of the meal planning decisions..... makes you wonder if women are inadvertantly killing off their spouses!!!

Haha! Maybe you have hit in a secret truth.

I wish my husband would completely embrace the idea that starches are not good for him. If I lived closer I would send him to Dr Davis or some other savvy doctor. He had real health improvements when he gave up wheat but is heading toward vascular surgery for a blockage in his femoral artery. I cannot get him to give up oatmeal porridge and rice crackers. He whines, 'What will I eat?' I am getting into the habit of making him alternative muffins, pancakes and breads but he still goes back to the old stuff. I am worried because he had angioplasty to remove the blockage 6 months ago and it seems that he is back worse than ever now.

I really struggle to understand all the info as our needs become more critical and defined. I understand principles but detailed science has me going cross eyed,

I congratulate you on your persistence and hope you find ways to modify and heal your body. Good that you discovered this while still comparatively young.

Blessings

Blessings,

MargieAnne


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