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Low carb vs Weight Watchers
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Post: #1 Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 12:36 PM


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General question to throw out there for everyone. I've now been on Atkins for almost two months now, and I feel that I've been doing well, considering I made it through the holidays. My employer, a major healthcare provider here in the US strongly encourages it's employees to live a healthy and active life and really pushes Weight Watchers. Starting at the beginning of the year, they will start having weekly meetings here in the office, and the company will pay for us to join. My question is this...should I jump ship with low carb and join Weight Watchers? Can I "do" both? My mother has been extremely sucessful with weight watchers, which is slightly weighing on my decision along with work. Again, I feel I'm doing well with low carb now. Any imput would be greatly appreciated.

Jason
Washington D.C.

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Post: #2 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 12:53 PM


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Jason, the real question is low carb vs. low fat. I lost 100 pounds on Weight Watchers some years ago and put it all back on because I was always hungry, felt deprived and was never satiated on a low fat diet. You can do the research on this forum and anywhere online and find that a low carb food plan keeps you satiated, it's a healthy way to lose weight and something you can continue for life. The choice is yours but I can tell you from experience, you can lose weight eating low fat but it's not a healthy long term plan. Read the books, do the research and don't buy into government hype.

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Post: #3 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 12:54 PM


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I guess you have to decide if you want to count points and/or calories and if a low fat high carb diet is better for you.

The real Atkins (72 version) is all about real food, no calorie counting, no points. You will feel more satisfied on Atkins, never hungry.
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Post: #4 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:02 PM


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Thank you for the quick reply back Moonius! I figure, why mess with a good thing right now since Atkins is working out so well for me right now. The peer pressure at work from the Weight Watcher people is pretty intense to join their group. Thank you again!

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Post: #5 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:10 PM


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Lloyd, if WW is free and you want to attend the meetings...then why not? You can particpate, join in the rah-rah and the celebrations, and yet continue to eat low carb. The recognition you get at WW for losing weight is encouraging but the food plan leaves much to be desired.

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Post: #6 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:17 PM


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(12-31-2008 01:10 PM)moonius Wrote:  Lloyd, if WW is free and you want to attend the meetings...then why not? You can particpate, join in the rah-rah and the celebrations, and yet continue to eat low carb. The recognition you get at WW for losing weight is encouraging but the food plan leaves much to be desired.

Moonius, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps the encouragement of a group would be beneficial. I am considering joining our at work ww class for the support of others in the same boat as me - not for the plan.


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Post: #7 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:32 PM


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Great question, Jason! I have blogged about the influence of people doing low-carb attending these Weight Watchers meetings before:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=1745

Nobody has to know you are livin' la vida low-carb, but they won't be able to ignore your AMAZING success each week at the meetings. Big Grin

After all, low-carb is the PERFECT diet for those who have failed on Weight Watchers:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=87

Read this story about a nurse who was so publicly shamed by Weight Watchers that she turned to low-carb:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=1846

I say be an INFLUENCE in the lives of those who think Weight Watchers is their answer.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
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Post: #8 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:42 PM


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(12-31-2008 01:10 PM)moonius Wrote:  Lloyd, if WW is free and you want to attend the meetings...then why not? You can particpate, join in the rah-rah and the celebrations, and yet continue to eat low carb. The recognition you get at WW for losing weight is encouraging but the food plan leaves much to be desired.

When you get awards for losing weight, tell them what you are really doing and blow their minds. Smile

I paid WW $$$$ for a weight rollercoaster ride that ended with type 2 diabetes. I won't give WW another penny. If it's free, the added support might help. If I were to do WW again, I'd do the "core" plan, not eat starch, and use the extra points for fat.

Sugar is the enemy; fat is my friend. The only bad fats are artificial fats.
Low Fat & Fat Free -- tastes bad, bad for you.
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Post: #9 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 01:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 01:51 PM by lloydjason.)


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Thanks everyone! I definately get all support I need from LLVLC and Atkinsdietbulletinboard, but I like the idea of infiltrating the WW group. Sorta makes me feel like a spy, in a weird fun way...

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Post: #10 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 02:11 PM


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I lost weight on Atkins but eventually stalled. I only broke the stall by trying a calorie-counting scheme, something I think WW does. Just keep the carb-calories low and you'd get the best of both worlds.

Just my opinion: You can't become thin on Atkins. At best, you'll go from obese to merely chubby. Like I said, my opinion based on my experience.

Good luck,

kevin
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Post: #11 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 02:39 PM


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This has been my dilema for a few years. I successfully lost weight on Atkins...my health improved immensely...but my daugther, who was losing weight with WW was worried about the high fat aspect of my WOE. I stopped Atkins and joined WW with her...and I guess it was fine at the beginning...I lost weight and was enjoying the fruit and carbs. But then...reality set in...I was craving EVERYTHING! And with WW...you can eat anything you want...just count the points. I would literally eat (3) donuts at work...(just 15 points - who needs breakfast or lunch today anyway?). I'm sure you know the rest - I quit eating real food - started with a lot of low points, processed junk...gained 30 lbs...asthma, headaches, brain fog, irritability came back. I think WW is probably okay for some - I know it does work...but for a lot of us...it's just not possible. We need to eliminate the processed junk, carbs, reduced fat, manufactured foods and eat REAL FOOD! The others are right though...the weekly weigh-ins would be good since they are offering it free. Just beware that a lot of people will be excitedly sharing about their newest no fat cake or cookie recipe, etc...
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Post: #12 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 03:00 PM


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Remember, "high-fat" doesn't mean you're just gorging yourself on the stuff. It's simply stating that as a percentage of total caloric intake, the fat is higher. When you change from a carb-burning machine to a fat-burning one, your body NEEDS fat to make that happen. Here's a blog post I wrote with one of the best analogies I've ever heard about this difference:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=1634

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
KETO CLARITY: http://tinyurl.com/KetoClarity
CHOLESTEROL CLARITY: http://tinyurl.com/CholesterolClarity
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
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Post: #13 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 03:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 03:14 PM by crvc56.)


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That bothered me the most about Atkins: the high animal fat intake. Maybe some of that fat is evacuated but a lot becomes body fat. Also I believe animal fat stores much of the pesticides, antibiotics and hormones that go into animal feeds.

kevin
(12-31-2008 02:39 PM)saved0ne Wrote:  This has been my dilema for a few years. I successfully lost weight on Atkins...my health improved immensely...but my daugther, who was losing weight with WW was worried about the high fat aspect of my WOE. I stopped Atkins and joined WW with her...and I guess it was fine at the beginning...I lost weight and was enjoying the fruit and carbs. But then...reality set in...I was craving EVERYTHING! And with WW...you can eat anything you want...just count the points. I would literally eat (3) donuts at work...(just 15 points - who needs breakfast or lunch today anyway?). I'm sure you know the rest - I quit eating real food - started with a lot of low points, processed junk...gained 30 lbs...asthma, headaches, brain fog, irritability came back. I think WW is probably okay for some - I know it does work...but for a lot of us...it's just not possible. We need to eliminate the processed junk, carbs, reduced fat, manufactured foods and eat REAL FOOD! The others are right though...the weekly weigh-ins would be good since they are offering it free. Just beware that a lot of people will be excitedly sharing about their newest no fat cake or cookie recipe, etc...

I'm sorry to carp, maybe everyone assumes we're closed today so I'm in my office twiddling my thumbs from boredom. But I don't get the wood analogy. Maybe I'm too 'literal minded' But balsa is quite porous so it should burn fast. Teak is very dense. Unless you poured an accelerant on it, it shouldn't burn at all. Is balsa supposed to represent fat? If anything, being twice as calorie-dense as carbs, it should burn slower, not faster than carbs (teak).

kevin
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Post: #14 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 03:25 PM


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(12-31-2008 03:01 PM)crvc56 Wrote:  That bothered me the most about Atkins: the high animal fat intake. Maybe some of that fat is evacuated but a lot becomes body fat. Also I believe animal fat stores much of the pesticides, antibiotics and hormones that go into animal feeds.

kevin

I think you're wrong here kevin. Fat that you eat is not stored as fat. It's used as fuel. It's the insulin response that make excess carbs convert to fat. Also, if you eat grass fed beef, free range pesticide free poultry and hogs, there is no need to worry about any chemicals in the animal fat.

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Post: #15 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 03:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 05:18 PM by LindaSue.)


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Bear Wrote:I think you're wrong here kevin. Fat that you eat is not stored as fat. It's used as fuel. It's the insulin response that make excess carbs convert to fat. Also, if you eat grass fed beef, free range pesticide free poultry and hogs, there is no need to worry about any chemicals in the animal fat.


I agree with Bear - the healthy fats that low carb affords seems to be the premium fuel for my body! I just have to go by what my body tells me...when I get rid of carbs, even the so-called healthy whole wheat...I feel amazingly good! But when I try and eat the SAD, I steadily feel worse and worse. My daughter now agrees with me...she's seen the difference in my weight, my mood, and my health. She's a believer in low carb eating now too!
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Post: #16 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 04:04 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 04:15 PM by crvc56.)


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(12-31-2008 03:25 PM)Bear Wrote:  
(12-31-2008 03:01 PM)crvc56 Wrote:  That bothered me the most about Atkins: the high animal fat intake. Maybe some of that fat is evacuated but a lot becomes body fat. Also I believe animal fat stores much of the pesticides, antibiotics and hormones that go into animal feeds.

kevin

I think you're wrong here kevin. Fat that you eat is not stored as fat. It's used as fuel. It's the insulin response that make excess carbs convert to fat. Also, if you eat grass fed beef, free range pesticide free poultry and hogs, there is no need to worry about any chemicals in the animal fat.

I understand from reading Taubes that insulin prevents release of fatty acids from stored fat. But has no effect on absorbed fats being added to stored fats. Absorbed fat first must be added to the stored fats and then released as fatty acids that can be burned for energy. So a high-fat diet prevents insulin release but doesn't prevent fat from being added to the already existing fat stores. Convoluted thinking, perhaps I need to read Taubes some more. :-) Also, my grocery store doesn't sell anything free range or pesticide free. I'd have to drive three hours to find any

kevin
New computer, I accidentally hit 'send' in mid-sentence. I was about to say I'd have to drive three hours to find any of that tree-hugging stuff. :-)

Jimmy said, "Remember, "high-fat" doesn't mean you're just gorging yourself on the stuff". Maybe that's the trick. Finding the lowest level of fat needed but no more. I assume I can find that from non-meat sources like avocado or coconut oil That way I avoid the chemicals in beef or pork. Did I mention, I'm a veterinarian and was responsible for putting those chemicals and hormones in beef?

kevin
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Post: #17 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 05:11 PM


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(12-31-2008 04:04 PM)crvc56 Wrote:  
(12-31-2008 03:25 PM)Bear Wrote:  
(12-31-2008 03:01 PM)crvc56 Wrote:  That bothered me the most about Atkins: the high animal fat intake. Maybe some of that fat is evacuated but a lot becomes body fat. Also I believe animal fat stores much of the pesticides, antibiotics and hormones that go into animal feeds.

kevin

I think you're wrong here kevin. Fat that you eat is not stored as fat. It's used as fuel. It's the insulin response that make excess carbs convert to fat. Also, if you eat grass fed beef, free range pesticide free poultry and hogs, there is no need to worry about any chemicals in the animal fat.

I understand from reading Taubes that insulin prevents release of fatty acids from stored fat. But has no effect on absorbed fats being added to stored fats. Absorbed fat first must be added to the stored fats and then released as fatty acids that can be burned for energy. So a high-fat diet prevents insulin release but doesn't prevent fat from being added to the already existing fat stores. Convoluted thinking, perhaps I need to read Taubes some more. :-) Also, my grocery store doesn't sell anything free range or pesticide free. I'd have to drive three hours to find any

kevin
New computer, I accidentally hit 'send' in mid-sentence. I was about to say I'd have to drive three hours to find any of that tree-hugging stuff. :-)

Jimmy said, "Remember, "high-fat" doesn't mean you're just gorging yourself on the stuff". Maybe that's the trick. Finding the lowest level of fat needed but no more. I assume I can find that from non-meat sources like avocado or coconut oil That way I avoid the chemicals in beef or pork. Did I mention, I'm a veterinarian and was responsible for putting those chemicals and hormones in beef?

kevin

Yep, I wish the standard in this country was what it used to be when we had more family farms and the hormones and anti-biotics weren't used by everyone. The "Good Old Days" of American food.

I must be confused somewhere though kevin. I was sure that I read in Taubes, and others, writings that fat burned first as fuel after Alcohol and carbs. So if you remove those things, that's when the body begins using dietary fat and stored body fat. I could be wrong. But that would be my first time in 2008. ;O)

Bear

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Post: #18 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 05:18 PM


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ok... suddenly everyone got all technical on me. It's making my newbie head spin.
Just ended up ordering 12 LLVLC bars as a reward for the progress I've made so far.

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Post: #19 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 05:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 05:28 PM by moonius.)


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"...to be in ketosis deliberately is a signal for rejoicing. It is a sign that the unwanted fat is being burned up as fuel.

When no carbohydrate is taken in, your body must draw upon the major reserve of fuel-the stored fat. It is forced to take a different metabolic pathway. In this process your body converts from being a carbohydrate-burning machine into being a fat-burning machine.

...if we add carbohydrate very gradually-in tiny amounts-we can do just this...keep your body converted into a fat burning machine.

As long as you don't take in carbohydrates, you can eat any amount of this "fattening" food and it won't put a single ounce of fat on you.

FMH (Fat Mobilizing Hormone) is a natural substance of the human body that is only produced when the diet contains little or no carbohydrate. And its presence in the urine means that the individual is using up his fat stores as body fuel."

Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution/Robert C. Atkins, M.D.

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Post: #20 RE: Low carb vs Weight Watchers , 12-31-2008 05:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2008 05:42 PM by PatTee.)


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I was on weight watchers a while back - I think I only missed doing a few diet plans on this planet Rolleyes Sad . Anyway - I did lose on WW then started to steadily gain - I always craved carbs and was always hungry ! My system revolts - stores fat with carbs !
I had my blood lipids done after being on WW for some time and found that my cholesterol was high -LDL's ( that's the bad stuff) were high , triglycerides in particular were high at 96 ( even though at acceptlable level) . HDL( that's the good stuff) was pretty low- below 50 . Not a good blood workup at that time .The ratio of good/bad was not good . After being on Atkins - VLC , now more VLC <10 carbs a day , my blood workup is stellar !! While my cholesterol is a bit over 200 - it is not the entire profile . My triglycerides are at 50 , my HDL is now at 80 !! A total reversal !! My DR. is thrilled and so am I .

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