Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood
Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 12:26 PM


Administrator



Calvin has been reading up on the latest studies about low-carb diets

In Lesson #19 of my new book 21 Life Lessons From Livin' La Vida Low-Carb, I state that "you can't always trust or believe the negative studies on low-carb." And today I have yet another prime example of this to share with you out of the research world that got big headlines when it released. Now that the weight loss and physical health benefits of livin' la vida low-carb are undeniable, the attention is now being turned towards mental and emotional health. Ohhh, this is gonna be a fun one!


Dr. Grant D. Brinkworth says high-fat, low-carb diets make you moody

Lead researcher Dr. Grant D. Brinkworth, research scientist and project leader at Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization (CSIRO) Food and Nutritional Sciences in Adelaide, South Australia, observed 106 overweight and obese adults with an average age of 50 and placed them on one of the following isocaloric diets for a period of one year (the ratio in parenthesis indicates the fat/protein/carbohydrate):

LOW-CALORIE, LOW-CARB, HIGH-FAT DIET (61/35/4) or
HIGH-CARB, LOW-FAT DIET (30/24/46)

Calories for both groups were restricted to between 1,433-1,672 daily and they both produced an average weight loss of 30.2 pounds at the end of the one-year study period. After eight weeks on their respective diets, each study participant showed improvements in their mood. However, according to Dr. Brinkworth and his fellow CSIRO researchers, the mood improvements in the high-fat, low-carb group regressed back to where they started prior to the study.

Click here for more details about this study and to find out why it is flawed based on both previous research as well as anecdotally in people who have been on a low-carb diet.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 01:37 PM


Expert Low-Carber


I personally believe that the opposite is true.

This is what I know about the mood/carb relationship:

Those who suffer from bipolar disorder do tend to be less manic following a low carb regimen, but when combined with exercise, which lifts the mood, tends to balance out the calming effects of not eating simple carbs. Nothing to do with complex carbs, from what I can tell.

The main reason I started on low carb was because of a book "Why Am I Still Depressed?" by Dr. James Phelps, MD (psychiatrist specializing in bipolar II and soft bipolar disorders).

I was diagnosed in 2007 as being bipolar II. I used to be what's called a rapid cycler ...manic..depressed....manic...depressed. My mood swings were unreal. His suggestion that following what was essentially a metabolic syndrome diet coupled with exercise was what kept me off those dreaded and deadly mood stabilizers.

After reading the book, I talked to my therapist, who had wanted to put me on pills. I brought her the book and asked to try his suggestion first. She gave me a month. 3 days after I stopped eating all simple carbs, I began to sleep 8 hours per day, stopped the rapid cycling and my personality did a 180. I also started walking to keep from cycling into depression. I lost 7 pounds the first week.

Added bonus: Almost 70 pounds weight loss in about 7 months.

I seriously doubt that the study is valid for people without any personality disorders, but I'm no scientist. I only know what Dr. Phelps said, and he did state that it was anecdotal. It sure as heck worked for me. I kept the weight off for close to a year.

When my father got hurt & I had to go to Ca to take care of him, my stress level went through the roof and I started eating carbs again. My mood swings went right back where they were before & I started having sleeping problems again.


No Longer in Texas, but can't change my name

I was on the side of righteousness, and like any fundamentalist, I could only stay there by avoiding information. - Lierre Keith
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 05:08 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


I just started back low carbing on Sunday after wasting 6 years on Jenny Craig. I am doing Atkins, have not really headaches but have been kind of depressed. Is it true on low carb you get in a bad mood and are depressed? I will mention my cycle is due to start around the 12th. I don't think it is pms. I am DESPERATE to lose weight-have 80 lbs to knock off and feel low carb is the only way! Should I try Atkins and if after so many days can't tolerate it switch to something like south beach with more carbs? Will the depressed mood/lack of energy go away after I am through induction? Any advice is appreciated. I am taking the necessary supplements-I take coQ10, 3 99 mg potassium pills, 2 glucosamine/chrondroitin pills, and a Centrum multi vitamin. I do feel that when I eat a low fat/high carb diet I think quicker but I don't want to go back to that for two reasons-1)it is not helping me lose weight (even with exercise) and 2) I am doing low carb to treat acid reflux (don't want to take drugs to cure it). Thanks!
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 05:28 PM


Unregistered

 


What you are describing may well just be "induction flu" aka Atkins funk that hits some (more than others) during the first few days of LC. Stick with it for at least a week before considering changes. There are some people who just don't do well on VLC, but you really can't know that until you give it an honest chance.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 05:44 PM


Unregistered

 
Ummm.... Jimmy, the results of previous studies, whatever they may show, do not and SHOULD not influence the conclusions based on the results of this study. This is not an "oh really" moment here. Take these results in conjunction with other studies to draw your own conclusion. (Again, if the media stresses this study over the others, this is by no means an indictment of the researchers!) But these results are sound for what they are. What any of us chooses to make from them is what we'll do. I suspect those that have mood improvements will beg to differ, those who don't may find some clues to their predicament, and those who have neither (this is my general camp as I don't feel better or worse on LC than I did on many of my LF stints of the past) will probably feel badly for the rest.

It is no more encumbent upon Brinkman to explain results contradicting previous studies as it is for the authors of those prior studies to "re-explain themselves" in light of new evidence. Such is the fodder for review articles, not necessarily the publications of original research.

I'm not always in agreement with Jenny, but she has a slightly different take that strikes a chord with me:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009/...-mood.html

There are some other lessons to be learned from this study that are contrary to some LC theories. Should they be revised or should the study authors doctor their results or discount them for no sound reason?
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 05:51 PM


Administrator



If you do feel depressed on low-carb in the early days, then it doesn't last.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 05:52 PM


Administrator



It is no more encumbent upon Brinkman to explain results contradicting previous studies as it is for the authors of those prior studies to "re-explain themselves" in light of new evidence. Such is the fodder for review articles, not necessarily the publications of original research.

I'm not always in agreement with Jenny, but she has a slightly different take that strikes a chord with me:
http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009/...-mood.html

There are some other lessons to be learned from this study that are contrary to some LC theories. Should they be revised or should the study authors doctor their results or discount them for no sound reason?
My thing is I'm just not buying it. I was never more "moody" than I was when I ate a high-carb, low-fat diet. I've felt FANTASTIC on high-fat, low-carb for the past six years. The whole premise of this research seems fishy to me.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 06:06 PM


Unregistered

 

I don't know that there was a "premise" here other than not knowing either way. From the article intro:

Quote:Very low-carbohydrate (LC) diets are often used to promote weight loss, but the long-term effects on psychological function remain unknown.

I'm not sure we know the long-term effects on psycological function for any diet type, but I see nothing nefarious about conducting this study.

I think it is also helpful to keep in mind that the end results are for sample means not individual-to-individual comparison. So many can see improvements but not all. As Jenny pointed out, there was a high dropout rate -- this is in concurrence with my experience and those of many others. Indeed, very few of us know even one other person in our real lives that do LC, and given the wonderous results some have with it, how can that be? My guess is that for one reason or another, LC is just quite difficult to follow. For me, had I not done the cheating thing this time I wouldn't be here, because strict LC is next to impossible for me for all perpetuity. Yet mostly LC has been and is.

RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 07:26 PM


Expert Low-Carber



Are you exercising? That is key to increasing your seratonin levels (or is it endorphins???) in the brain. It can also be withdrawl symptoms from the carb addiction that most of us have before we get into LC.

I've never done induction and I eat way more carbs (but only complex carbs) than most here do. But it worked for me.

I felt it when I didn't exercise. I just walked. On a rainy day, I'd do a couple of miles on the treadmill.

Another GREAT exercise aid is Wii Fit (choose the Plus now, I've ordered it, but I can't exercise hard until January), the yoga, balance training, strength training and aerobic exercises really help and it keeps track of your progress.

Yes, the mii's are stupid and the little wii guy makes you want to pull a Dirty Harry on it when it tells you you're 'obese', but it helped me a lot.

The Yoga and balance games are great if you're not used to exercising. Yoga really helps the digestion, too. That can be embarrassing if you're in a room full of people, lol, but I loved it.

If you use Bing and shop on Ebay, you can get a wii for about 180.00 with the cash back and you can probably find packages that include the wii fit plus with the balance board.

I already had the regular wii fit, so I only paid about 12 dollars (after bing and ebates, lol) for the wii fit plus upgrade.


No Longer in Texas, but can't change my name

I was on the side of righteousness, and like any fundamentalist, I could only stay there by avoiding information. - Lierre Keith
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 07:35 PM


Expert Low-Carber



I'm not sure we know the long-term effects on psycological function for any diet type, but I see nothing nefarious about conducting this study.

As Jenny pointed out, there was a high dropout rate -- this is in concurrence with my experience and those of many others. Indeed, very few of us know even one other person in our real lives that do LC, and given the wonderous results some have with it, how can that be?
It's hard to follow because we are constantly bombarded with commercials, fast food, prepared foods, etc, all telling us that LC is bad and a lot of people aren' willing to give up sugar, potatoes, etc.

A friend of mine is suffering horribly from pain in his knees. Doc told him it was his weight (5'6", 225 lbs). He saw me drop froma size 20 to a size 8 in just months. I told him how I did it and he said, "but I'd have to give up Coke". Duh....I said, yeah and the added bonus to that is that you'd get to keep your freaking teeth!".

I have an upper plate largely because of many years of 2 liters or more of Coca Cola per day.,

We all have to give up something to get to our goals. I do eat more carbs than most of you, but for my metabolism, it works. For others, it probably wouldn't. But when I'm in full LC mode, not a bit of simple carbs pass my lips and that's how I did it. I don't eat the complex starches every day, but I do eat some. I found this wonderful sprouted brown rice and I do occasionally have a corn tortilla or whole wheat pasta, but it's not part of the daily diet.

We all have to do what works best for us. And I took a page from Jimmy and had a free day once in a while. I think Jimmy did it every 6 weeks, I did it every time I dropped a pants size.

I didn't feel deprived, I was never really hungry and when I just had to have sweets, well, there are lots of sugar free candies out there, I bought 12 chocoperfection bars about 4 months ago, have given away half of them and still have two. I could eat them all the time if I wanted, they taste just like chocolate, but I'm trying to curb my addiction to sweets in any form, so I rarely eat a whole bar in a day. A square is enough.

Point is that you have to make it a lifestyle and allow yourself to stumble sometimes without just giving up. If I eat something I shouldn't, i don't beat myself up, I just do better the next day.


No Longer in Texas, but can't change my name

I was on the side of righteousness, and like any fundamentalist, I could only stay there by avoiding information. - Lierre Keith
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 07:46 PM


Administrator


Who cares what other people are doing as long as livin' la vida low-carb is making ME healthy.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 09:05 PM


Unregistered

 
I think my point is being misunderstood somewhat. It seems that if ANY plan were a panacea, everyone would do it and be successful and nobody would be overweight or have diabetes or anything of the sort .... ahhhhhh Utopia!?!

So this study is not at all out of line ... take from it what you will, but I don't find the findings at all suprising or contradictory of other studies for that matter. Despite his recent successes, my husband still cannot do LC to any consistent degree ... I believe he's not alone. Even though I did get positive responses about doing LC on my summer visits to Canadian relatives, they still marveled at my "sacrifice". I have to say that weighing a whopping 8 lbs less in 8 months of tweaking and trying is NOT mood enhancing!! Re-read Jenny's blog post ... trapse around the journals and challenge threads here and tell me there's not support for a mood let down in the long run. Not everyone, but many it seems.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-08-2009 09:18 PM


Unregistered

 
Incidentally, the study did NOT claim that low-carb diets depress your mood.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-09-2009 09:08 AM


Administrator


But the headlines about the study did...which is the main problem I have with a lot of the research. The media perverts it into their own preconceived agenda every single time to make low-carb look bad.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-09-2009 11:03 AM


Unregistered

 

I'm willing to put part of the blame here, but I don't eat what I enjoy eating because of any commercials and such and I doubt that in the end most people would eat unpalatable foods just because they're told to. If I'm doing any traditional calorie restriction plan, then if I eat more than the portions I'm "cheating" but not blowing it as much as if I eat something carby if that makes any sense. For me it's mostly because my husband does not (yet) do LC with me, although he's been doing lower carb. Many people have to cook for their families and such which is added pressure. Rice, pasta, potatoes, beans, grains and corn have NO place in an LC diet ... whereas meats, butter, desserts can all be incorporated into a calorie restricted diet in moderation. Every now and again I enjoy a REAL NY thin crust style slice of pizza, or REAL 10 ingredients Chinese fried rice, or real pasta, etc. When I do, I am, by definition, eating off plan. However the amounts I eat of these things would fit on any other weight loss plan.

Quote:Point is that you have to make it a lifestyle and allow yourself to stumble sometimes without just giving up. If I eat something I shouldn't, i don't beat myself up, I just do better the next day.

This is what has worked for me for over two years now with no intent to stop. Just that I don't see my "cheats" (despite the negative term) as stumbling. I plan them ahead of time and see them as times I can enjoy foods I enjoy w/o guilt or the notion that a few carbs here and there are going to kill me and make me fat. Having only become truly obese after doing LC the first time about 10 years ago, I had to find a way to do it most of the time but pretty much forever.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-09-2009 11:10 AM


Unregistered

 

So take it out on CBS news and the like. Your "mugshot" with the subtitle of "Dr. Grant D. Brinkworth says high-fat, low-carb diets make you moody" is equally irresponsible because the RESEARCHER said no such thing. You also claim the study is faulty when it is not. Just because the results can be used to make LC look bad doesn't impugn the integrity of the researchers or the validity of their results. You also accused them of ignoring prior research. Read the entire intro of the article and you know this is flat out false Jimmy. They cited a lot of prior research and explained how their study was different because it looked at a significantly longer term. What the study showed -- based on a number of measures -- is that the mood elevation experienced by both groups in the shorter term was not sustained -- ON AVERAGE BY COMPARISON -- in the LC group vs. the LF group.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-09-2009 05:07 PM


Administrator


I'm not gonna get into a pissing contest back and forth about what I wrote in my column. I stand by everything I wrote and if something was interpreted incorrectly by the media then it is incumbent upon the researchers to correct it.

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-09-2009 10:36 PM


Moderator



Jimmy,
Studies can not be called "flawed" simply because they disagree with anecdotes or previous study results. Studies are only flawed if they fail to measure what they set out to measure.

If you have no issues with the methodology itself, the results are just results. There's nothing to agree or disagree with...it's just what happened. We can't say "This study correctly measured what it set out to measure but I don't like the results so it's flawed." We don't have that luxury. That's exactly what we accuse the low fatties of doing.
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-10-2009 03:33 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Hang these studies and what they say they mean. I know how my body reacts to sugars and starches. I fought depression all through school and beyond. Whenever the big D would strike, I would be driven toward
RE: Jimmy's take on that study claiming low-carb diets depress your mood , 12-10-2009 02:34 PM


Administrator


I'm just not buying the conclusion that low-fat, high-carb dieters have a better mood than a high-fat, low-carb one. Being constantly hungry and miserable is not my idea of a happy place to be. And that's what limiting fat did to me. Am I the only one who responded this way to low-fat?

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
2009 BOOK: http://tinyurl.com/yh6smyy
OFFICIAL WEB SITE: http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/LLVLC
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/livinlowcarbman
BLOG: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog
LLVLC PODCAST: http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes
ATLCX PODCAST: http://ww.askthelowcarbexperts.com
LOW-CARB CONVERSATIONS PODCAST: http://www.lowcarbconversations.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/livinlowcarbman
E-MAIL ME: livinlowcarbman@charter.net