Inflammation and fat
Inflammation and fat , 03-05-2010 09:09 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


I've been digging around to find info on inflammation since my C-reactive protein test came back high.

There are two schools of thought on this. One says to eat a very high saturated fat ketogenic diet in order to reduce inflammation.

The other one says that until inflammation is reduced/eliminated, eat a low carb, moderate fat, low sat fat diet to reduce inflammation.

I use coconut oil for cooking my proteins and veggies.

I love butter, but it doesn't love me back. (casein intolerant.) I'm not crazy about ghee. I'm fine with olive oil for drizzling. I've been using heavy cream in my one-a-day cup of coffee, and eating high-fat cheese.

I've gone through most of the posts on Heart Scan blog and Cooling Inflammation blog and a lot of other websites. Dr. Davis used to be against sat fat, but now it appears he changed his mind. But he doesn't mention coconut oil!

Cooling Inflammation blog says to limit sat fat until inflammation goes away.

PaNu basically says that anyone who is overweight has inflammation and if the metabolism is slow (mine is nonexistent) they should do an 80% fat diet.

Poor old Dr. Weil is still pushing soy products, carbs, and canola oil on his anti-inflammation diet.

So here's my question: Does anyone have any good info on this or firsthand experience? Should I cut out the coconut oil until the numbers get better? Should I use more olive oil instead? Should I eat more fat than I am already eating? (about 60%)

My doctor is concerned about heart disease. My EKG was fine, but I am having some minor symptoms (shortness of breath, palpitations, tightness in chest upon minor exertion.) My HDL is good. My Vitamin D is ridiculously low.

I will be having a a cardio stress test soon.

Doc told me to eat low carb, take COQ10, Fish Oil, and Vitamin D3. And I'm taking a couple of other supplements, like magnesium, Vitamin C and an herbal anti-inflammatory mix.

But it's the fat that has me a little bit perplexed. Any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

PS I hope I haven't already asked this question here. I belong to two different low carb forums and sometimes I get them mixed up. Forgive me if this is a repeat.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-09-2010 10:13 PM


Expert Low-Carber



My last CRP was .68.

My boyfriend's CRP came back at 3.68 - and he lives for fruit and vegetables, eats apples and leafy greens like they are candy, occasionally eats junk food, doesn't avoid foods with pesticides and chemicals, and doesn't take any supplements. Just an observation..

Here's a study that shows taking a multivitamin reduces crp: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14693322
plus other sources for lowering crp mention CoQ10, dark chocolate and Vitamin C.

I don't consume all of these to specifically lower CRP ( I was surprised as anyone that mine was so low) but evidentially they seem to work for me. Hope this helps.


Just curious: when are you having the palpitations?

Ellen
http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com
http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-09-2010 10:35 PM


Expert Low-Carber


I think I'd analyze my O-6 to O-3 ratio if I were having inflammation. The olive oil would have more O-6 than butter or coconut oil. Macadamia nut oil is low in 6 too. Pork/bacon would be higher in 6 and beef is relatively low. Animals that graze (cud-chewers) have lower O-6 content since the mainstay of their diet is grass (if they have access to pasture) You may need some fish oil to correct your 6 to 3 ratio?

Kathy Coe
CFT, SPN, MT
Refinery Fitness Center
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-10-2010 01:20 AM


Advanced Low-Carber



My last CRP was .68.

My boyfriend's CRP came back at 3.68 - and he lives for fruit and vegetables, eats apples and leafy greens like they are candy, occasionally eats junk food, doesn't avoid foods with pesticides and chemicals, and doesn't take any supplements. Just an observation..

Here's a study that shows taking a multivitamin reduces crp: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14693322
plus other sources for lowering crp mention CoQ10, dark chocolate and Vitamin C.

I don't consume all of these to specifically lower CRP ( I was surprised as anyone that mine was so low) but evidentially they seem to work for me. Hope this helps.


Just curious: when are you having the palpitations?
Thanks. I eat very clean, similar to you. Organic veg, grass-fed meats, pastured pork/chicken/eggs, etc. Only use stevia. I don't eat any fake food or junk food at all.

I've been getting palpitations only when under exertion. Like if I lift something heavy, or try to increase treadmill, and can't do elliptical at all. Otherwise, I'm doing okay. I'm very out of shape right now as I haven't been exercising regularly.

Also, I have a severe periodontal infection that will be treated very soon. Doc thinks that perhaps the CRP number might have something to do with the infection, but he's not sure.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-10-2010 01:26 AM


Advanced Low-Carber



I eat grass-fed meat and take Fish Oil, but I just started on the Fish Oil recently - not long enough for it to change the CRP number. The pork/bacon I eat is from a farm. I use coconut oil and some Kerrygold (grass fed cows) butter for cooking . I use very little olive oil and no Mac nut oil. I don't eat nuts, due to a dental problem, but sometimes I have and occasional teaspoon of almond butter.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-11-2010 10:23 PM


Expert Low-Carber



My last CRP was .68.

My boyfriend's CRP came back at 3.68 - and he lives for fruit and vegetables, eats apples and leafy greens like they are candy, occasionally eats junk food, doesn't avoid foods with pesticides and chemicals, and doesn't take any supplements. Just an observation..

Here's a study that shows taking a multivitamin reduces crp: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14693322
plus other sources for lowering crp mention CoQ10, dark chocolate and Vitamin C.

I don't consume all of these to specifically lower CRP ( I was surprised as anyone that mine was so low) but evidentially they seem to work for me. Hope this helps.


Just curious: when are you having the palpitations?
Thanks. I eat very clean, similar to you. Organic veg, grass-fed meats, pastured pork/chicken/eggs, etc. Only use stevia. I don't eat any fake food or junk food at all.

I've been getting palpitations only when under exertion. Like if I lift something heavy, or try to increase treadmill, and can't do elliptical at all. Otherwise, I'm doing okay. I'm very out of shape right now as I haven't been exercising regularly.

Also, I have a severe periodontal infection that will be treated very soon. Doc thinks that perhaps the CRP number might have something to do with the infection, but he's not sure.
I would agree with the Doc.. maybe before you make changes, get a crp test when no infections are present.

I asked about timing on heart palpitations because they are a symptom of reactive hypoglycemia.. I used to get them in the middle of the night when my blood sugar went too low. just a thought.

Hope your periodontal issues heal quickly!

Ellen
http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com
http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com
 RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-25-2010 01:26 PM


Newbie Low-Carber


I have trouble with inflamation as well, and my CRP is high as well. Believe it or not, it was recently suggested to me by a dear old friend (80+) that I use a cold pack (not ice, a reusable gel pack) in strategic locations 10 minutes on, 10 minutes off.
1) my shoulder blades/(underarms if I can take it)
2) back of my neck
3) top of my head/temples
4) back of the knees
5) bottom of the feet

She didn't say for how long, or whether I had to do them all every day, but I plan to try this in conjunction with the other lifestyle changes I have underway. I know coldpacks on my head are VERY helpful when my iritis flares, so I am anticipating a positive effect. I'll repost in six weeks when I get my new blood panels.
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-25-2010 04:41 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


1) my shoulder blades/(underarms if I can take it)
2) back of my neck
3) top of my head/temples
4) back of the knees
5) bottom of the feet

She didn't say for how long, or whether I had to do them all every day, but I plan to try this in conjunction with the other lifestyle changes I have underway. I know coldpacks on my head are VERY helpful when my iritis flares, so I am anticipating a positive effect. I'll repost in six weeks when I get my new blood panels.
VERY interesting! I've recently been turning on the cold water at the end of my shower. I hate cold on my body, but I'd be willing to try this. I don't keep ice in my freezer, but I do have some gel packs. Thanks!

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-25-2010 09:58 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Here is my experience with saturated fat. I use coconut oil, butter, fatty meats, eggs, cream.I identify my inflammation through my achy joints, migraines,itchy skin. All of those things have vanished without ruining by blood lipids. I believe that saturated fats and, of course low carb, contributed to the relief of my inflammation. I am so convinced of the power of sat fats that if my doctor told me to cut back on them, I would ignore him.

Saturated fats are guilty by association. This always reminds me of the segment of teh Disney cartoon, Lady and The Tramp. If you recall, the Tramp ran a big nasty rat out of the baby's room only to be blamed for making a big mess and endangering the baby. He was put outside in the rain although he actually saved the baby from harm.
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-25-2010 10:37 PM


Advanced Low-Carber



Saturated fats are guilty by association. This always reminds me of the segment of teh Disney cartoon, Lady and The Tramp. If you recall, the Tramp ran a big nasty rat out of the baby's room only to be blamed for making a big mess and endangering the baby. He was put outside in the rain although he actually saved the baby from harm.


My health issue doesn't display symptoms of joint problem, aches, or skin issues. If those were my symptoms, I'd not even question saturated fat, because they aren't life-threatening. My symptoms are chest pain/tightness, shortness of breath, and heart palpitations, plus a high number on my C-Reactive Protein test - which is an inflammation marker. So far I haven't given up saturated fat. I still have the symptoms. In about a month or so, I'll re-test.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 05:39 AM


Expert Low-Carber


I mentioned my inflammation issues to be used as a comparison. If saturated fats contributed to inflammation my inflammation issues should have increased instead of improve. If saturated fats caused inflammation, I should be in tons of pain right now. Instead, the inflammation cooled when I increased my saturated fats.

I posted a link that I found on C-Reactive protein, from the Cleveland Clinic. I honestly believe that vitamin D levels should be increased primarily. Vitamin D , at optimal levels, should reduce and/or protect against all inflammatory issues. You can easily see a domino effect if you blame low vitamin D levels for your periodontal infection and the infection for elevated CRP. Your periodontal infection could raise your CRP levels, which could lead to cardiovascular disease.

Interesting link here:

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/articles...ve-protein
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 10:04 AM


Advanced Low-Carber



I posted a link that I found on C-Reactive protein, from the Cleveland Clinic. I honestly believe that vitamin D levels should be increased primarily. Vitamin D , at optimal levels, should reduce and/or protect against all inflammatory issues. You can easily see a domino effect if you blame low vitamin D levels for your periodontal infection and the infection for elevated CRP. Your periodontal infection could raise your CRP levels, which could lead to cardiovascular disease.

Interesting link here:

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/articles...ve-protein
Thanks, I totally agree with your post and I appreciate the link very much.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 01:39 PM


Advanced Low-Carber


I have seen tremendous improvement in inflammation from high saturated fat, low unsaturated fat intake. I have had osteoarthritis since my early 20s (I'm 56 now) and rheumatoid was (finally) diagnosed about 3 yrs ago. For as long as I can remember I have had seriously elevated inflammation markers, until I started increasing my sat fat intake. The last time it was checked, about a year ago, my CRP etc were all well within normal limits.

My rheumatologist has been amazed to say the least. Apparently my RA markers are very high and yet my symptoms are fairly minor....and he feels my diet is the main reason.

One other thing to consider thought....remember that while many unsaturated fats are pro-inflammatory, so are many of the chemicals found in todays foods. I eat as natural diet as possible. Minimal use of commercial condiments, otherwise everything I eat is natural. Wheat and other grains are also very inflammatory....so even though you may not be eating breads, etc the components of wheat and grains are often included in many processed foods.

I saw an improvement when I went low carb.....but a more dramatic improvement when I increased my sat fat intake.

For the ice issue....that is a local solution and may decrease the inflammation some, you may not see an overall reduction as much as you'll see a local relief. The inflammation could still be there, just diminished in the area treated.

Cindy

http://cindyslowcarblife.blogspot.com/

http://www.examiner.com/x-15820-Raleigh-...b-Examiner
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 01:54 PM


Unregistered

 

Before I started my second stint on LC I, too, had a bad perio infection. For who knows how long, this was not enough to cause me pain (root canaled teeth so didn't feel it?). I would wake up with a racing heart that literally woke me up it pounded so hard in my ears! Lots of other issues that seemed like heart issues similar to what you describe. All of a sudden the infections flared incredibly and things were taken care of. All I can say is that my entire being felt an enormous relief almost within 24 hrs of extraction (back molars thankfully). Get that infection treated ASAP. You'll feel a world of difference and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that, like me, the heart issues go away with it. When I had some weird issues with my heart a year or so later following significant LC weight loss, I had a thorough work-up done, and my heart came through with flying colors. They've never found anything wrong with my heart, so what I'm saying is that quite often what appears to be heart-related can be caused by something else. Perio infections are a biggie. Hope you feel better!
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 04:27 PM


Advanced Low-Carber



Before I started my second stint on LC I, too, had a bad perio infection. For who knows how long, this was not enough to cause me pain (root canaled teeth so didn't feel it?). I would wake up with a racing heart that literally woke me up it pounded so hard in my ears! Lots of other issues that seemed like heart issues similar to what you describe. All of a sudden the infections flared incredibly and things were taken care of. All I can say is that my entire being felt an enormous relief almost within 24 hrs of extraction (back molars thankfully). Get that infection treated ASAP. You'll feel a world of difference and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that, like me, the heart issues go away with it. When I had some weird issues with my heart a year or so later following significant LC weight loss, I had a thorough work-up done, and my heart came through with flying colors. They've never found anything wrong with my heart, so what I'm saying is that quite often what appears to be heart-related can be caused by something else. Perio infections are a biggie. Hope you feel better!

Yes, thanks. I'm doing a Perio microbial treatment right now and I do notice a difference.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 04:33 PM


Advanced Low-Carber



My rheumatologist has been amazed to say the least. Apparently my RA markers are very high and yet my symptoms are fairly minor....and he feels my diet is the main reason.

One other thing to consider thought....remember that while many unsaturated fats are pro-inflammatory, so are many of the chemicals found in todays foods. I eat as natural diet as possible. Minimal use of commercial condiments, otherwise everything I eat is natural. Wheat and other grains are also very inflammatory....so even though you may not be eating breads, etc the components of wheat and grains are often included in many processed foods.

I saw an improvement when I went low carb.....but a more dramatic improvement when I increased my sat fat intake.

For the ice issue....that is a local solution and may decrease the inflammation some, you may not see an overall reduction as much as you'll see a local relief. The inflammation could still be there, just diminished in the area treated.
Yes, thanks.

For many years now I have been eating organic, chemical-free, fresh and nutritious food, never processed - I've been buying eggs from a farm, grass fed beef, organic veggies/fruits, and even when I ate the higher carb stuff, it was always as fresh and unprocessed as possible.

However, I learned in August '09 that I have Celiac disease. I am sure that 53 years of eating gluten grains - wheat/oats/rye/barley has wrecked my immune system and also contributed to the inflammation along with the periodontal disease.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-27-2010 04:42 PM


Advanced Low-Carber



I posted a link that I found on C-Reactive protein, from the Cleveland Clinic. I honestly believe that vitamin D levels should be increased primarily. Vitamin D , at optimal levels, should reduce and/or protect against all inflammatory issues. You can easily see a domino effect if you blame low vitamin D levels for your periodontal infection and the infection for elevated CRP. Your periodontal infection could raise your CRP levels, which could lead to cardiovascular disease.

Interesting link here:

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/articles...ve-protein
I was discussing this very thing with my daughter-in-law this morning. Within a very short time of going LC, about two weeks, I also noticed a dramatic improvement in my joints, and when I think of it, my skin also. I am more limber now than when I was in my 20's, and I am now almost 57. I used to bruise very easily, and my skin was always sensitive to the touch - always very tender. I felt sooo old! Now I feel pretty darned good!

I have not been able to determine exactly what has been the most responsible for the positive changes - dropping the sugars, agricultural grains, legumes and carby veges as well as seed oils, or the addition of more saturated fats. I made all these adjustments to my diet all at once, so it's hard to determine. I have also lost 43lb this past year. However, my PA at the VA is not so impressed and still want's me to to go back on some statin. Not a chance this side of heaven! Been there, done that and it wasn't good. I feel too good to go back to that.

Sue :>)
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-28-2010 07:48 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Tapper, our experiences sound so similar. I too felt old when I was in my late thirties. I couldn't turn around and grab my purse from the back seat. i always told one of the kids to grab it for me. After beginning lc I noticed a substantial improvement from the pain. As a matter of fact after regaining the 30 lbs I originally lost doing LC, I never had an increase of pain. This was one reason I clung to LC even though I was gaining weight. I eventually included intermittent fasting and I noticed an addititional reduction of pain. Along with IF I increased my fats so to keep up my caloric intake and began learning more about ketones. The more I learned about ketones the more I began increasing my fats, namely butter,coconut oil. I went from half and half to heavy whipping cream.I pour fat drippings over everything...why waste it? I am now virtually pain free. PLUS, I lost all of the weight that I regained and I hope to lose around 7-10 more lbs.
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-29-2010 10:53 PM


Senior Low-Carber


This is very interesting to me. When I first went low-carb in November 2008, my chronically aching feet became 100 percent better within a week or two. A podiatrist had diagnosed me with plantar fascitis, but even though I have since been off low-carb for almost a year and have gained weight, the foot pain has not returned.

However, for eight or 10 months now I have been experiencing a lot of back and hip pain. I've had back pain in the past but never this constant. A few months ago an orthopedic specialist diagnosed me with various things. He said my weight was not the cause, but I know it is a major contributor. One of my biggest motivators right now for getting back on low-carb (I'm working on it) is to see if it relieves the back pain.

It makes me think that inflammation can exaggerate existing problems and prevent them from healing.

I would highly suspect your periodontal infection as a major contributor to your system-wide inflammation. They say that people who don't floss are much more likely to have heart attacks because of the inflammation. And when I had a heart murmur, they made me take antibiotics every time I had my teeth cleaned -- apparently the bacteria in the gums can easily travel to the heart.

I hope you get your problems solved soon -- let us know how it goes!
RE: Inflammation and fat , 03-30-2010 12:09 AM


Advanced Low-Carber


Grains contain phytic acid, which is inflammatory. Especially wheat.

Suzan
My blog: Suzan's Spot