Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis
Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-10-2012 06:01 AM


Junior Low-Carber


If I am in an adapted state of ketosis, then eat enough of the waffles off my daughter's plate to go out of ketosis(or insert your own evil carb vessel of choice), then I go on a hard 3 hr mountain bike ride on a sunny 80 degree afternoon,

would my fuel source be switched off of fat stores, so I would then be running on just a little bit of energy from these so called healthy waffles?...basically just screwing myself out of any significant energy source?

Is that how it works?
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-10-2012 08:21 PM


Senior Low-Carber



would my fuel source be switched off of fat stores, so I would then be running on just a little bit of energy from these so called healthy waffles?...basically just screwing myself out of any significant energy source?

Is that how it works?
I don't do endurance exercise, but in my experience there is a turnaround time to recover when you "eat enough waffles to go out of ketosis" and I would expect endurance and performance would suffer as a result. The length of the turnaround time may vary, but I doubt it can occur immediately to meet that strenuous demand. My expectation is once you burn up the available sugar from the waffles you will bonk.

Hope that was helpful. Stay away from those waffles.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-22-2012 03:34 PM


Junior Low-Carber



would my fuel source be switched off of fat stores, so I would then be running on just a little bit of energy from these so called healthy waffles?...basically just screwing myself out of any significant energy source?

Is that how it works?
I don't do endurance exercise, but in my experience there is a turnaround time to recover when you "eat enough waffles to go out of ketosis" and I would expect endurance and performance would suffer as a result. The length of the turnaround time may vary, but I doubt it can occur immediately to meet that strenuous demand. My expectation is once you burn up the available sugar from the waffles you will bonk.

Hope that was helpful. Stay away from those waffles.


That is my expectation too, thanks for the comments.

SInce it's not a scientific study on my part,a nd there seem to be so many other variables in play, I wasn't sure if that was the issue or not.

But it was a significant enough experience to raise the question.

So, it seems to me, that once you get an insulin spike, you are (or atleast can be), thrown out of ketosis and it takes time for your body to recover (get back into ketosis) and burn fat stores.

Has anybody seen any actual science to prove this theory, even though it seems sensible enough?

Thanks again.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-23-2012 12:46 AM


Junior Low-Carber


It seems to me that you could easily replenish the glycogen stores in your liver and muscle tissue, and it can take days to exhaust them again before your body returns to ketones for fuel (if you ate enough sugar).
What I wonder about is that if you are keto adapted, that is to say your body has created sufficient "machinery" to use ketones as it's primary fuel- especially when exercising- how quickly does it get rid of that machinery when sugar is re-introduced? Also, when fully keto-adapted, is your body any less "gluco-adapted," does it work the other way? That would mean that when you cheat on your LC diet, your body might not perform as well on sugar as it used to...
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-23-2012 02:50 AM


Junior Low-Carber


What I wonder about is that if you are keto adapted, that is to say your body has created sufficient "machinery" to use ketones as it's primary fuel- especially when exercising- how quickly does it get rid of that machinery when sugar is re-introduced? Also, when fully keto-adapted, is your body any less "gluco-adapted," does it work the other way? That would mean that when you cheat on your LC diet, your body might not perform as well on sugar as it used to...


While I fully understand the concerns you raise, and they are good points, i don't think there'sa problem.

I'm not knowledgeable enough, nor elequent enough to explain it, but I think the one point is coverred by Dr Jeff Volek when he talks about the new UCANN Super Starch supplement that does not induce an insulin spike, leaving you in ketosis, and aloows the body to feed of the dual fuels of it's own fat reserves and the carbs of the Super Starch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNr2JwJ6ARE

Does that help answer your question?
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-28-2012 12:25 PM


Unregistered

 
Insulin resistant people don't do well on the "dual fuels" thing.

If you are insulin resistant, the extra carbs work against you.

If you are not insulin resistant, it may not even matter, and you probably would not be standing in the LC line in the first place.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-28-2012 01:54 PM


Junior Low-Carber



If you are insulin resistant, the extra carbs work against you.

If you are not insulin resistant, it may not even matter, and you probably would not be standing in the LC line in the first place.


Very interesting. Thanks for the input.


Three things jump out at me:

1. What is the point of the dual fuel system if it doesn't work for insulin resistant folk? Seems to me they are the only one's who would want it. If you are fine burning carbs, why would you complicate thiings?

2. How do you know this? Any links to specific studies or articles, or is this more common knowledge/conventional wisdom that I lack?

3. The salient point of this Generation UCAN Super Starch product is that it does not cause an insulin spike, therefore leaving one in a state of ketosis, and therefore theoretically able to utilize both fuel systems. SO, in your opinion, would it still be an issue for insulin resistants?

Thanks again for your input.

Edit: OK, DFH, I click on your DFH link to continue my research and right away see the motocross pic and title, and smile: I ride a 2010 Gas Gas EC 450 enduro, and am looking to replace my '05 GG 450 with a '10 GG EC 300. Nice. I'll go back and read the article now.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-28-2012 06:25 PM


Unregistered

 

If you are insulin resistant, the extra carbs work against you.

If you are not insulin resistant, it may not even matter, and you probably would not be standing in the LC line in the first place.


Very interesting. Thanks for the input.


Three things jump out at me:

1. What is the point of the dual fuel system if it doesn't work for insulin resistant folk? Seems to me they are the only one's who would want it. If you are fine burning carbs, why would you complicate thiings?

2. How do you know this? Any links to specific studies or articles, or is this more common knowledge/conventional wisdom that I lack?

3. The salient point of this Generation UCAN Super Starch product is that it does not cause an insulin spike, therefore leaving one in a state of ketosis, and therefore theoretically able to utilize both fuel systems. SO, in your opinion, would it still be an issue for insulin resistants?

Thanks again for your input.

Edit: OK, DFH, I click on your DFH link to continue my research and right away see the motocross pic and title, and smile: I ride a 2010 Gas Gas EC 450 enduro, and am looking to replace my '05 GG 450 with a '10 GG EC 300. Nice. I'll go back and read the article now.
That's cool. I did those pics in AMA SX.

I'm shooting the Motocross of Nations next month in Belgium.

Mammals that can digest both carbs and fat (omnivores) are just doing what nature intended. You don't need a study. In fact you are better off without one because many of the people publishing studies have their head way up the exhaust pipe. I would rather look around me and use common sense.

If there is a magic starch that does not raise insulin, then you should have no issues with your keto-adaptive status.

I doubt anyone is really "fine with burning carbs." It eventually catches up with you, depending on your health, what carbs, and how long.

The way I view it is this-

We are omnivores, obviously built for "duel fuel." Next, how much of each? We already know that the modern diet is many times over too high in carbs, and public health suffers. The reason lowering carbs for so many people works is that they are undoing damage from eating too many carbs and elevated insulin (and insulin resistance).

Notice how the "Paleo Robustos" (people who never had a weight problem) are running their mouths about how low carbers just dont get it. This is because they haven't experienced what we have and can't understand it.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-28-2012 07:05 PM


Junior Low-Carber


Good stuff, thanks for the reply.

I'm going to order the Super Starch and give it a fair try for riding and light weight lifting routines.

Have fun at de Nations. I doubt you'd run into Women's Enduro World Champion Gas Gas rider Lu Lu Puy at an mx event, but if you do, tell her that her adoring fans say hello. My 2 yr old daughter has her poster up on her bedroom wall.

I admit to being a little more of a track guy than a single track enduro rider. I really like getting into the zone on a track, improving your lines and speed each lap and just carving it up. I tend to ride more high mountain single track because that's what we have available around here.

Cheers.
RE: Question on fuel source when in/out of ketosis , 08-29-2012 11:04 PM


Unregistered

 

I'm going to order the Super Starch and give it a fair try for riding and light weight lifting routines.

Have fun at de Nations. I doubt you'd run into Women's Enduro World Champion Gas Gas rider Lu Lu Puy at an mx event, but if you do, tell her that her adoring fans say hello. My 2 yr old daughter has her poster up on her bedroom wall.

I admit to being a little more of a track guy than a single track enduro rider. I really like getting into the zone on a track, improving your lines and speed each lap and just carving it up. I tend to ride more high mountain single track because that's what we have available around here.

Cheers.
Will do!

I shot some AMA Enduro, and GNCC (off road 3 hr scramble). Pretty cool stuff. I got to know David Knight a bit ("Shrek!").