Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions
Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-18-2008 06:28 PM


Senior Low-Carber


I have been back at low carbing since July 2006 but I begun weight training along with high fatting in February 2008 and that allowed me to get down to 154. About a month ago I got a huge infection, had to stop working out and was on extremely strong antibiotics. I bloated up to 160. This was swiftly followed by TOM so my weight today stands at 157.

I did an extremely intense workout Friday evening. I did free weights for the first time ever and worked on the upper body. The guy had me doing three sets of 12 reps. I could only manage to get up to 10 though. Since then I have had this really weird internal shaking and quivering of my muscles. Also, normally after a weights session my weight is up by a few lbs and it actually fell to a lower weight on Saturday morning. Sunday it was up a tiny bit.


Here are my questions:

1) It has been a month since I did weight training and since the session on Friday I notice that I am craving protein and starchy carbs. I also notice my appetite has increased. Is there any reason for this? Is it just because it was a super intense session? I was having success with a 70% fat, lower protein intake combined with the weight training until the infection derailed me so I'm not keen to change that but maybe I DO need to up my protein or carbs? My protein is currently at 100g daily. Will my appetite get back to normal? And why am I craving carbs? TOM is over and I am not upset about anything so not seeking comfort. I currenly eat 60-80 carbs daily.

2) Why are my muscles all quivering and shaking even as I sit here typing? They are not shaking so much today but they HURT so much. Where can I find a simple explanation of glycogen and all that?

3) Why did my weight FALL the day after my weight training session when normally it goes up a bit?

4) Should I keep going with the high fatting or should I increase my protein or my carbs or what?

5) Where can I find more information about carb cycling? Or would this not work well for a insulin resistant PCOSer?

6) Will L-Glutamine help with the carb cravings and increased appetite?

P.S. I did VLC for 9 months and it did not work for me so PLEASE don't tell me to lower my carbs to that level. I have been there, done that.

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 01:53 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Anyway now that you all have my autobiography here are my questions:

1) It has been a month since I did weight training and since the session on Friday I notice that I am craving protein and starchy carbs. I also notice my appetite has increased. Is there any reason for this? Is it just because it was a super intense session? I was having success with a 70% fat, lower protein intake combined with the weight training until the infection derailed me so I'm not keen to change that but maybe I DO need to up my protein or carbs? My protein is currently at 100g daily. Will my appetite get back to normal? And why am I craving carbs? TOM is over and I am not upset about anything so not seeking comfort.

Why is it that people think that they can increase energy expenditure without increasing energy consumption? Exactly where is the energy to fuel such an intense workout supposed to come from? You increased your workout but tried to eat less. It's not just you, but why do so many of us think that this will be beneficial? It just doesn't work that way.

When you lift weights intensely, at least, you are breaking down muscle. Your muscles rebuild themselves and get stronger. This is the theory of weightlifting. Therefore, when you lift, you have to provide plenty of protein and fat in your diet or your body will go after your other muscles to get the protein and fat they need. Your body doesn't care if the fat and protein come within your body or without. In fact, your body doesn't know. The food you eat gets added to your internal long-term supply and the food you eat is indistinguishable to your body after it's broken down in your stomach.

Your appetite will never be the same as long as your energy expenditure is different. It will always respond to the anticipated needs of your muscles, which is what hunger is.

Carbohydrates are normally eliminated in your muscles. That's the first place they are sent after your meal. When you eat carbohydrates, insulin clears your bloodstream of fatty acids giving the muscles unrestricted access to your carbohydrates so the muscles can dispose of them. As you lift, your muscles will get bigger. Eating carbohydrates causes your body to retain salt so therefore it will retain more water. This causes the muscles to swell and they can store more glycogen (glucose molecules). This will cause you to crave more carbohydrates and this coupled with insulin resistance will result in weight gain, plain and simple.

You have a high insulin output (hyperinsulinemia) and since there is less glucose available for your bigger muscles, they make you crave carbohydrates. You have to wait this out and eventually your body will adapt to dealing with less glucose and will scale back the production of insulin.

Lynnhopes Wrote:2) Why are my muscles all quivering and shaking even as I sit here typing? They are not shaking so much today but they HURT so much. Where can I find a simple explanation of glycogen and all that?

You overworked them and you eliminated all the glycerol from them. You must supply enough energy for them to work or they will do this. You also have to provide adequate time for recovery. The amount of glucose that your muscles typically eliminate from your muscles is usually referred to as your "glycogen stores" because glucose is stored as glycogen in your muscles. This is what the "carb-loaders" try to replenish after working out. When you get insulin resistant, your muscles no longer want this glycogen and it goes to fat storage instead. Again, you must wait this process out until your body scales back your insulin response. It takes a little while but you'll feel better if you hang in there.

Lynnhopes Wrote:3) Why did my weight FALL the day after my weight training session when normally it goes up a bit?

During the day, humans store more fatty acids than they burn to anticipate the night where we run exclusively on our fatty acids. This is how our long-term food supply works. When your body adjusts to your activities, it will store a little more than you need to fuel the activity. When you up the intensity by a large margin (which is what you did evidently) then you have gone beyond what your body had planned for that particular afternoon. Now, you should expect to be more hungry for a few days because your body has to change its predictions of your activity levels.

Many trainers like to constantly adjust workouts in response to this, but I don't think it's healthy to do this over the long term. Your body likes to regulate things and it enjoys stability. Keeping the environment constantly unstable would not be ideal in my view. Your nutrition is the most important thing. If you eat properly, you will lose weight and get stronger without the need for such tomfoolery!

Lynnhopes Wrote:4) Should I keep going with the high fatting or should I increase my protein or my carbs or what?

You should keep your fat high and you should increase your protein intake. Keep your carb level the same or decrease it to avoid gaining weight. The bigger your muscles get, the more glycogen they can store. You don't want big puffy muscles, you want a strong, lean and muscular body.

Lynnhopes Wrote:5) Where can I find more information about carb cycling? Or would this not work well for a insulin resistant PCOSer?
. This would not work for you. If you understand my answers to your other questions then you understand why this would not work. The Correct Diet for Athletes.

Lynnhopes Wrote:6) Will L-Glutamine help with the carb cravings and increased appetite?

Appetite is not the problem, your diet and adaptation are the problem. You must fix these. There is no need for supplementation of any kind. Get your vitamins and minerals from real food and you'll be fine.

Lynnhopes Wrote:P.S. I did VLC for 9 months and it did not work for me so PLEASE don't tell me to lower my carbs to that level. I have been there, done that.

That's fine. Being insulin resistant, you can continue to look forward to bad days and being stuck between keto-adaptation. If VLC did not work then you have to find out why it didn't. Weight lifting will only exacerbate the issue. You can metabolize carbohydrates or you can't, there's no middle ground. Weight lifting always causes weight gain if your diet is incorrect. Try it for yourself.

Good luck.

Charles
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 02:21 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Charles Wrote:That's fine. Being insulin resistant, you can continue to look forward to bad days and being stuck between keto-adaptation. If VLC did not work then you have to find out why it didn't. Weight lifting will only exacerbate the issue. You can metabolize carbohydrates or you can't, there's no middle ground. Weight lifting always causes weight gain if your diet is incorrect. Try it for yourself. Charles


The more moderate weight lifting approach I was on did help me lose weight. I guess my body will adjust but it obviously needs more protein.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. It helps.

What do you mean stuck between keto-adaptation? Do you think that VLC works for EVERYONE? Bear in mind I am on metformin 500mg x 2 daily decreased from metformin x 3 daily as my health has improved greatly.

Thanks!

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 04:58 PM


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lynnhopes Wrote:What do you mean stuck between keto-adaptation? Do you think that VLC works for EVERYONE? Bear in mind I am on metformin 500mg x 2 daily decreased from metformin x 3 daily as my health has improved greatly.

Thanks!

Before you eat a meal, your pancreas secretes insulin in anticipating what you're going to eat. It over-secretes because it doesn't really know. This clears fatty acids and all nutrients from your bloodstream. The food comes in, gets broken down into fatty acids, amino acids from protein, and glucose. These pass through your stomach wall to the bloodstream. The insulin fades and the fatty acids return. The glucose goes to your muscles where it is converted to glycerol. The bigger the muscles, the more glycerol they store, unless insulin resistance is bad and they don't store much glycerol.

You exercise and burn up (eliminate) the glycerol from your muscles and then they make you crave more. There is a period of time where the body adjusts from "needing this glucose" to using ketones. Every time you exhaust those glycogen stores, you will feel like you are going through keto-adaptation. When you get keto-adapted, your body doesn't need very much glucose and it actually "protects" (glucose sparing) the glucose in your muscles because it effectively shuts off the muscles from using glucose at all. They will only burn fatty acids.

This period takes anywhere from two weeks to two months depending on the person. Intense exercise may not feel particularly good until you have gone through this process. However, it is necessary to keep the carbs low to stay in this mode.

This is why VLC works for everyone. However, most people don't allow for ketoadaptation and they continue to feel poorly.

Metformin works by increasing insulin sensitivity and has to be adjusted as your anticipatory insulin secretion begins to drop. You would probably have to progress to the point where you are no longer taking Metformin to become fully keto-adapted.

I think anyone with Type 2 would definitely benefit from very-low carb (sans metformin) because the anticipatory insulin response could be lowered naturally as opposed to relying on a drug to control or blunt the response.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 06:26 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Ah but I was at VLC for nine months. I have PCOS but I am not a type 2.

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 06:45 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Ah but I was at VLC for nine months. I have PCOS but I am not a type 2.

The Metformin was definitely a factor. The goal of very-low carb is to reduce insulin sensitivity by removing carbohydrates. Metformin would complicate that progress because it wants to increase sensitivity which masks metabolic syndrome. I don't know what PCOS is but I know what Metformin does.

I think we're all potential Type 2's to be honest! Any time insulin resistance shows up, that makes us potential Type 2, Cancer, Diabetes, Syndrome X, Hypertension, Obese, Sedentary, you name it. These are all symptoms of the metabolic disorder that we've created by our eating habits a long time ago.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-19-2008 08:34 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Ah that makes sense! In fact my doctor told me that perhaps my VLC diet would not work so well on metformin. Here is a brief explanation of PCOS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome

Do you think everyone should be on a ketonegenic (sp?) diet?

Should I go off metformin? I know a fellow woman with PCOS who also low carbs and she says going off metformin led to her shedding her final 15lbs ( my final goal is 14lbs away).

Also is the goal not to increase insulin sensitivity rather than insulin resistance? I thought the goal was to be insulin sensitive like a 'normal' person that can tolerate carbs.

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-20-2008 02:52 PM


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lynnhopes Wrote:Ah that makes sense! In fact my doctor told me that perhaps my VLC diet would not work so well on metformin. Here is a brief explanation of PCOS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome

Okay, now I understand. Yes, PCOS is a disease of civilization for sure. Gary Taubes talked about this in GCBC on Page 436 in Chapter 24. It's called the matabolic hypothesis of fertility and it has largely escaped the attention of clinicians. I'll try to briefly describe it for you:

Reproductive biologists have long considered the availability of food to be the most important environmental factor in fertility and reproduction. That means that the critical variable in fertility is not body fat, but the immediate availability of metabolic fuels. Wade and Schneider did research on hamsters who have four-day estrous cycles that work like clockwork. These experiments were remarkably consistent. These animals will go into heat regardless whether they are fat or lean and they will continue to cycle as long as they can eat as much food as they want.

If both fatty acid and glucose oxidation are inhibited, and they're not allowed to increase their food intake in response, their estrous cycles stop. They remain infertile whether they are gaining or losing weight at the time. These animals are responding to the general availability of metabolic fuels. The same observation has been made about pigs, sheep, and cattle. Monkeys will shut down their secretion of the hormone that triggers ovulation if they go twenty-four hours without food but they'll re-establish secretion immediately upon eating. The more monkeys eat, they more hormone they secrete.

What does all this mean to you? PCOS is strongly associated with obesity, Syndrome X, etc, and is treated similarly to diabetes. Obesity, diabetes, and PCOS are symptoms of a metabolic disorder where your body is unable to mobilize fatty acids due to high insulin levels at a rate that is healthy. This causes you to have PCOS which leads to infertility just as it does in those animals.

As Wade and Scheider said "If an excessive portion of available calories is locked away in fat tissue, then the animal will act as if it's starving. In such a situation there will be insufficient calories to support both the reproductive and the other phsyiological processes essential for survival." Reproductive activity shuts down until more food is available to compensate."

You have to find a way to mobilize more fatty acids than you store. How do you do that? By restricting carbohydrates consistently. Remember, insulin is an anticipatory response to the food you are about to eat, not the food you just ate. Whenever you see, smell, touch, or even think of food, your pancreas will secrete insulin. It oversecretes because it has no idea of how much glucose you're about to ingest. The more it secretes, the longer it takes for fatty acids to return to your bloodstream to provide your cells and tissue with the energy they need. This is the "cellular starvation" that I just wrote about. It's like starving amidst plenty. Your body cannot get to the metabolic fuel because of your high levels of insulin.

The very low-carbohydrate diet works because it consistently provides less reason for the pancreas to oversecrete and the pancreas eventually gets the hint and slows production. Each time you cheat and add more carbohydrate, you start this process all over again. Your pancreas can simply not trust that you will not overload it with glucose so it continues to oversecrete.

Because PCOS is a symptom of a hormone, you will not lose weight on even a very-low carb diet until you get this corrected. Obviously, insulin affects your hormones because insulin is the only hormone that will cause storage of fatty acids. All other hormones will mobilize fatty acids unless insulin prevents them. Your hormone cannot do it's job because of insulin.

You have to lower your insulin to free that hormone to do its job. Metformin tries to make the tissues more sensitive to insulin, but sensitivity is not your problem as much as the total amount of insulin you are secreting. Stopping the Metformin would likely allow insulin levels to go low with your VLCD and thus fix your hormonal issue and allow you to mobilize more fatty acids which leads to weight loss.

Lynnhopes Wrote:Do you think everyone should be on a ketonegenic (sp?) diet?

This is the diet that we were created to eat. We cannot get amino acids and the full range of B vitamins from any other source than animal proteins. We can synthesize glucose through gluconogensis and our brains work most efficiently on ketones. This suggests to me that to be at our best, this type of diet is most beneficial.

Lynnhopes Wrote:Should I go off metformin? I know a fellow woman with PCOS who also low carbs and she says going off metformin led to her shedding her final 15lbs ( my final goal is 14lbs away).

Well, if you understand what I wrote above, it appears to explain exactly why she was able to lose those pounds.

Lynnhopes Wrote:Also is the goal not to increase insulin sensitivity rather than insulin resistance? I thought the goal was to be insulin sensitive like a 'normal' person that can tolerate carbs.


The most dramatic alteration to the human diet in the past two million years unequivocally are:

1. The transformation from a carbohydrate-poor to a carbohydrate-rich diet that came with the invention of agriculture;
2. The increasing refinement of those carbohydrates of the past few hundred years; and
3. The dramatic increases in fructose consumption that came as the per-capita consumption of sugars.

As Gary Tabues wrote: Why would a diet that excludes these foods specifically be expected to do anything other than return us to "biological normality"?

These "normal" people as you called them, still suffer from the diseases of civilization. They may not get the symptom of obesity, but they easily get diabetes, cancer, heart disease, hypertension, tooth decay, and all the rest of them. We must understand that obesity is a symptom, not a disease.

Eating carbohydrates of any kind only provides a band-aid to the problem which is the metabolic disorder. Metformin provides a band-aid. You have to go to the root of the issue which is the metabolic disorder. Once you fix that, everything else falls into line.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 10:29 AM


Senior Low-Carber


Hi Charles

I cannot thank you enough for such precise, tailored information. I am wondering now about the metformin. Should I gradually reduce it or just stop cold turkey? My doc is great but she does not know about nutrition so I can't ask her.

I am printing out this thread to read and highlight and dissect when I am working supervising tomorrow.

I too believe that GCBC's vindicates everything I have believed about nutrition for a long time and have just finished it so I imagine I will be over at the GCBC's forum within the next few days

Thanks again!

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 01:55 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Hi Charles

I cannot thank you enough for such precise, tailored information. I am wondering now about the metformin. Should I gradually reduce it or just stop cold turkey? My doc is great but she does not know about nutrition so I can't ask her.

I am printing out this thread to read and highlight and dissect when I am working supervising tomorrow.

I too believe that GCBC's vindicates everything I have believed about nutrition for a long time and have just finished it so I imagine I will be over at the GCBC's forum within the next few days

Thanks again!

It would be great to have you at the GCBC forum.

As far as the Metformin, that's interesting. You're not Type 2 so you won't have the blood sugar issue that they would. Have you ever missed a day or two? If so, how did you feel?

I would give it a try. I wouldn't imagine you would feel much different since you have some carbohydrate in your diet. Your cravings might increase depending on your level of insulin resistance, but I think you'll be fine.

Once you stop it, then over a period of days or weeks, I would drop my carbohydrate level in proportion to my weight loss.

Regards,

Charles
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 02:44 PM


Administrator


I just received this in an e-mail from someone today and wanted to know what your reaction to it is:

Hi,

I read your blog entry on your weight gain while going to gym and thought I should write to you. Have been there, done that, same results.

BUT... I have also found something that might work around the problem (unless you really have some medical condition, which causes the weight gain). Maybe the best resource for the system is http://www.arthurdevany.com/ even though his logic is not always faultless. However, the thing works and I have found research elsewhere that supports the faulty and missing pieces of it.

I would not have written, if you had not mentioned that you are going to try IF anyway, so I thought maybe I could be of help.

The biggest problem with workouts designed for muscle growth (nowadays) is that they are optimized for people who are eating carbs. I honestly think that type of training is not optimal for same purpose on low carbs.

Problem with "normal" weight training is that it depletes the muscle glycogen. That is nice, if you have reserves to fill them AND build muscle at the same time. On low carbs you rarely do, so the training should be optimized to follow a growth hormone based "line" instead of the commonly used way of using insulin as the main growth hormone. The growth hormone is not enough to build bodies for competing in bodybuilding competitions, but few of us really want that. For getting nice looking symmetric muscle without much fat gain it should be adequate.

You could introduce more intermittancy on your training, and focus more on the strenght type of training. One more thing is to keep the training quite short, 45 minutes being the maximum and 25 minutes being great. You should never feel tired after a workout.

Other thing to combine with this is intermittent fasting. But as you need energy to build and maintain muscle, you should not target your calories too low. Just phase the fast with your training. Do the fast before your workout and eat after the workout. When weight goes down, even 3 hours of fasting can create the effect. The point here is that the absolute levels of the anabolic hormones are not as important as the changes in them.

De Vany has a free essay on this, it might help reading that. I have been trying this for couple of months now and had good results. Also some of my friends in Finnish lowcarb-forum have had good results (all ladies though, training with kettlebells). Probably this does not work for everyone, but might be easy to try if you are going to do IF anyway.


Anyone who has some thoughts to share, I'd love to hear 'em!

Jimmy Moore, "Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Discussion" forum owner
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RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 04:23 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Hi Charles

This is my first day without any and I am feeling pretty good. My hands and arms are a bit shaky but I feel quite energised and okay.

If my weight continues to fall and I continue to feel good I assume I won't need to drop my carb intake further?

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 05:02 PM


Unregistered

 
E-Mail Wrote:The biggest problem with workouts designed for muscle growth (nowadays) is that they are optimized for people who are eating carbs. I honestly think that type of training is not optimal for same purpose on low carbs.

Jimmy:

This is something that I believe I've been saying all along. Traditional weight lifting leads to overtraining. Overtraining is the very worse thing that any of us can do. This is the part that makes Slow Burn so exciting because it allows you to take advantage of what this guy is saying.

It doesn't have to be done Fred Hahn's way if you just take the principles and apply them to your workout. Pick a heavy weight that you can only lift about 7 times. Then, move on to the next exercise. The purpose is to work the muscle to failure and then move on. You only have to do this twice a week. That's why I only lift on Mondays and Thursdays. You should be fully rested before each session and your muscles need time to recover.

Eating carbohydrates cause the muscles to swell. When you lift weight, you're only increasing the size of these glycogen stores so that they can store more glucose. The problem is that when you become insulin resistant, some muscles accept this extra glucose and some don't. Not every cell is resistant, just some of them as we learned in GCBC. Therefore, you swell and gain weight.

It's easy to prove. Stop lifting weights for a couple of weeks, eat a very-low carb diet and see if you begin to lose weight. On that induction-level diet, you WILL NOT lose the muscle you gained. Intermittant fasting will cause your body to eat that muscle.

In order to not gain weight while weight lifting, you have to keep your carbohydrates extremely low consistently so that your anticipatory insulin response slows.

E-Mail Wrote:Problem with "normal" weight training is that it depletes the muscle glycogen. That is nice, if you have reserves to fill them AND build muscle at the same time. On low carbs you rarely do, so the training should be optimized to follow a growth hormone based "line" instead of the commonly used way of using insulin as the main growth hormone. The growth hormone is not enough to build bodies for competing in bodybuilding competitions, but few of us really want that. For getting nice looking symmetric muscle without much fat gain it should be adequate.

This is 100% accurate and I agree with it.

E-Mail Wrote:You could introduce more intermittancy on your training, and focus more on the strenght type of training. One more thing is to keep the training quite short, 45 minutes being the maximum and 25 minutes being great. You should never feel tired after a workout.

This is Slow Burn. My workouts last about 45 minutes and I do a whole-body workout each time.

E-Mail Wrote:Other thing to combine with this is intermittent fasting. But as you need energy to build and maintain muscle, you should not target your calories too low. Just phase the fast with your training. Do the fast before your workout and eat after the workout. When weight goes down, even 3 hours of fasting can create the effect. The point here is that the absolute levels of the anabolic hormones are not as important as the changes in them.

This part, I do not agree with. Dr. Eades wrote a guest blog a few months ago and he didn't agree with it either.

Doing very-low carb is the same as fasting. When you fast, your body subsists on fat and protein, albeit your fat and protein, but nevertheless that's what it is.

I don't know why people refuse to understand this but our bodies work with a long-term food supply. The food we eat today goes into the stomach. It is broken down into amino acids, fatty acids, glucose, and any other nutrients present. These pass through the stomach lining and enter the bloodstream. There, they come in contact with all the other nutrients and are indistinguishable from what was there before. Yallow and Berson taught us this and won the Nobel. This stream of nutrients goes through the body and is offered to every muscle and tissue that need them. It is directed by the central nervous system so the nutrients respond to muscle requests by instantly changing direction and going to where they are needed.

Fatty acids just don't sit in fat tissue. They go in an out constantly throughout the body. By the same token, glucose doesn't just go to the muscles and sit there. Those "stores" aren't that big and what's left goes to the fat tissue in the form of triglycerides, to the liver, to lipoproteins, and finally, to the arterial wall.

Contrary to popular belief, insulin is not "spiked" after a meal. Insulin gets secreted BEFORE we eat in anticipation of the meal. This is necessary to clear the bloodstream of all nutrients, fatty acids, amino acids and glucose. This ensures that the bloodstream will only have glucose in it so the muscles can have free access to it. This is what makes us feel acute hunger right before we eat because our bloodstream is empty of nutrients.

The glucose gets offered to the muscles first so it can be eliminated, which others refer to as "fueling." This is what bodybuilders call the "glycogen stores" which is how much glucose the muscles can take on. Your muscles only half-way cooperate with this due to insulin resistance. The part that the muscles don't accept gets stored as fat, or any of the other mechanisms that I've outlined. This is why people particularly gain weight when they lift weights. Weight lifters feel this absence of glycogen more acutely, just like marathon runners. A person lifting weights or running a marathon should eat less carbohydrate than they ordinarily would to prevent weight gain.

We know that this glucose is not really "fuel" because when we really need fuel, such as during our fight or flight response, adrenaline comes along and clears the bloodstream of glucose so that only fatty acids are available to fuel the muscles. Obviously, to be at our strongest and fastest, we require fatty acids, not glucose. That's why all this carb-loading business is pure and unadulterated horse -hit.

If you understand this, you also understand why intermittant fasting will not work. During the fast, it appears to work because your body basically goes on a zero-carbohydrate diet in that it only works with your fatty acids in your long-term food supply. However, the body will slow its energy expenditure during this time to conserve the long-term food supply and it will compensate at the next opportunity by storing more fatty acids.

We all intermittantly fast. It's called Sleep. Throughout the night, our bodies all run on stored fat and protein. We store fat during the day and we use it every night, just like rats. If we didn't, we would wake up in the middle of the night to eat, which shouldn't happen unless you have hyperinsulinemia.

Intermittant fasting would theoretically help you to not store as much during the daylight hours, but this has the dual action of causing your body to decrease energy expenditure and this will be counter productive.

Lifting weights or increasing energy expenditure by any means requires increasing energy intake, not decreasing. That increase must be in the form of fat and protein to prevent weight gain.

E-Mail Wrote:De Vany has a free essay on this, it might help reading that. I have been trying this for couple of months now and had good results. Also some of my friends in Finnish lowcarb-forum have had good results (all ladies though, training with kettlebells). Probably this does not work for everyone, but might be easy to try if you are going to do IF anyway.[/i]

This will appear to work because they are eating less carbohydrates throughout the day and therefore store less fatty acids. You don't have to fast to do this. Just eat very-low carb during the times you would fast. The dirty little secret is that our bodies do not know whether the fat and protein it uses comes exogenously (from the diet) or indogenously (from the body). It just knows how to get it when it wants it.

If you add intense exercise during intermittant fasting, your body will eat your muscle for the glycogen it wants. This is counterproductive!

I know you tried an induction-level diet, but you should try that without lifting weights for a week or two and see if you begin to lose. If so, then you know you have to eat a very-low carb diet while weight lifting.

Also, you must find out why there is blood in your urine. The concept of homeostasis dictates that whatever is affecting one system will affect all the others. Weight management is a system just like body temperature. If something is causes temperature to increase, then that will affect some hormone's ability to mobilize fatty acids.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 05:03 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Hi Charles

This is my first day without any and I am feeling pretty good. My hands and arms are a bit shaky but I feel quite energised and okay.

If my weight continues to fall and I continue to feel good I assume I won't need to drop my carb intake further?

That's right.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 05:08 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Dr. Charles

You must be sick of me by now but can you offer me an explanation as to why my hands are shaking again like they did after that intense workout last week? Low blood sugar??

I will have more questions for you when I get to read this tomorrow while the poor student does his exam as I don't fully understand some things. I thought my goal was to become insulin sensitive again and I thought met would help with that.

Thanks!

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-21-2008 05:53 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:You must be sick of me by now but can you offer me an explanation as to why my hands are shaking again like they did after that intense workout last week? Low blood sugar??

Nope, ask away!

Yes. You used all your muscle glycogen during that intense workout. Now, they are prompting you for more. Because you eat a relatively low carbohydrate diet, there is no glucose available so they are trying to prompt you to eat. The best thing you can do is increase your protein so that your body can make the glucose it needs from gluconogenesis.

This is a slower process than eating carbohydrates, but if you hang in there, you'll slowly reverse the cycle. If you cheat and eat the carbs, you'll restart the process. If it's unbearable, this shaking, you might need to take half a dose of your Metformin or eat a banana or something. You may have to come off the carbohydrates slowly. Stopiing the pill is like cutting your carbohydrates.

This doesn't just concern your meals, but rather you have to understand the metabolic background of hunger. In your case, it is established jointly between hunger and hyperinsulinemia. In both hunger and hyperinsulinemia, insulin gets secreted even between meals when the cells should be living off a fuel mixture of predominantly fatty acids.

Instead, the insulin traps the fat in the fat tissue and it signals the cells to burn glucose. To your body, the elevated insulin means you just ate and that carbohydrates are ready to be burned. In this case, they're not. High insulin levels prevent even the liver from releasing the glycogen in it and the body goes after your muscles and their glycogen supply. As a result, you shake and crave more glucose. Even if you eat cheese slices, the hyperinsulinemia will work to store these nutrients rather than allow them to be used for fuel.

You should recognize by now that this "craving" is more akin to an addiction. People coming off of drugs commonly report shaking hands and the like. Just hang in there and it will pass. Eat your fat and protein and if you get a headache or something, have some salad or other carbohydrate. You can beat this!

Lynnhopes Wrote:I will have more questions for you when I get to read this tomorrow while the poor student does his exam as I don't fully understand some things. I thought my goal was to become insulin sensitive again and I thought met would help with that.

Your doctor and the ADA recommend Metformin and a carbohydrate-rich diet to supposedly increase insulin sensitivity, at least temporarily, to ameliorate the symptoms associated with diabetes. The problem with this approach is that insulin is only measured from a whole-body level, which is all the existing technology allows. Any disparities between the responsiveness of fat and muscle tissue to insulin cannot be measured. This is the critical factor.

In 1971, University of Washington endocrinologists Edwin Bierman and John Brunzell fed mildly diabetic patients a diet of 85 percent carbohydrates and no fat and compared their glucose response with that of patients on a more typical American diet of 45 percent carbohydrates and 40 percent fat. Those on the carbohydrate-rich diet had a slightly lower blood-sugar response (whole body), and insulin secretion remain unchanged. Brunzell and Bierman interpreted that to mean that a carbohydrate-rich diet "increased the sensitivity to insulin of tissue sites of insulin action."

What is more likely is that carbohydrate-rich diets and Metformin increase sensitivity of fat cells specifically, but the muscle tissue remains insulin-resistant. This might lower blood sugar levels temporarily and delay or improve the appearance of diabetes or "mask" the diabetes as Von Noorden put it, but it does so at the cost of increasing fat accumulation and obesity.

In other words, Metformin and carbohydrate-rich diets improve the symptoms of diabetes only by furthering the fattening process. Your PCOS would not be helped by Metformin because PCOS is more akin to infertility which is caused by a lack of sufficient metabolic fuels. You need to mobilize fatty acids, not store them. Metformin and carbohydrates will cause you to store fatty acids; therefore, you should keep them as low as possible. Even at a level below what is necessary to reduce your weight because remember, you are working on fixing the metabolic problem, not just fixing the symptoms of that problem.

Regards,

Charles
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-22-2008 02:08 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Right so I read through this properly this morning and I think I get it now.

Basically metformin was keeping my cells sensitive to insulin. However what I want to do is LOWER my insulin levels yes? I won't be able to do that by staying on met as it aims to make my body hyper sensitive to my insulin therefore won't help me lower my insulin levels. Have I understood correctly?

I am also wondering about consistency. If I was to eat say 60 carbs a day divided into 4 meals should every meal have 15 carbs so my body will know that it will be getting this amount consistently as you say. Or would it be ok to have 10 in one meal, 10 in another, 15 in another and 25 in another. Or should I really just aim for a static 15, no more and no less per meal?

Also now that I am back to just watching carbs and eating protein and fat to appetite I find my cals are getting very high, like 2600 some days!!!! I never used to watch calories when I lost my weight and kept it off for two years but now the low carb world seems to be obsessed with calories and so I get scared when I see how much I eat.

When do you think I will start to see weight loss from coming off met?

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-22-2008 03:41 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Basically metformin was keeping my cells sensitive to insulin. However what I want to do is LOWER my insulin levels yes? I won't be able to do that by staying on met as it aims to make my body hyper sensitive to my insulin therefore won't help me lower my insulin levels. Have I understood correctly?

Metformin is carbohydrates in drug form. That's all it is. It keeps your fat cells sensitive, but fat cells are only part of the problem. The muscles are the vehicle our bodies primarily use to get rid of glucose and this is why many consider it to be "fuel." You get to the point where your muscles don't want any more so the insulin level cannot drop like it's supposed to which allows fatty acids to once again flow.

Lynnhopes Wrote:I am also wondering about consistency. If I was to eat say 60 carbs a day divided into 4 meals should every meal have 15 carbs so my body will know that it will be getting this amount consistently as you say. Or would it be ok to have 10 in one meal, 10 in another, 15 in another and 25 in another. Or should I really just aim for a static 15, no more and no less per meal?

Eat your carbohydrates early in the day if possible, like 20, 20 and 20 and none at your last meal. This will get you into fat burning earlier in the evening and prolong your night fast which may be more helpful.

Lynnhopes Wrote:Also now that I am back to just watching carbs and eating protein and fat to appetite I find my cals are getting very high, like 2600 some days!!!! I never used to watch calories when I lost my weight and kept it off for two years but now the low carb world seems to be obsessed with calories and so I get scared when I see how much I eat.

The number of calories are irrelevant. You have to get over this. The only thing that is important is your hunger. If you are walking around hungry, your insulin will not get controlled. If you are not losing, you must descrease your carbohydrates. You don't have to do it all at once, but make a reduction and keep to that for a week.

Lynnhopes Wrote:When do you think I will start to see weight loss from coming off met?

That's a very good question and one that I really can't answer. All you can do is eat to appetite and give it a week. If there is no change in weight, drop your carbohydrates down for another week.

Keep this up until you begin to lose.

This is Atkins in a nutshell.
RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-22-2008 03:50 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Thanks Charles!

RE: Weight Training, increased appetite and other questions , 05-22-2008 04:05 PM


Unregistered

 
lynnhopes Wrote:Thanks Charles!

You're welcome. Please keep me posted on how it's going. I love your questions, by the way.