Fibromyalgia
Fibromyalgia , 07-23-2010 12:41 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Went to a rheumatologist yesterday and have been told that I have severe fibromyalgia. At last, my laziness and being tired have a name and a cause. Does anyone here have it and what do you do for it? Are you on meds? Dr. prescribed nortryptoline(sp) to help me sleep at night. Said getting a good nights sleep should help. And we will go from there. Any tips or hints from anyone? I would sincerely appreciate any knowledge and help on this. I have googled but that is not like talking with real people.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-25-2010 04:56 PM


Expert Low-Carber


So...does noone have any experience with fm? Anyone? Please...

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-25-2010 09:01 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Gator Gal XOXOXO. I have no personal experience except for a friend who has it as does her son. SHe also has a daughter. SHe and the daughter has severe anxiety issues. None of them even comes close to doing a low carb diet. I made a copy of a thread from another public LC forum that discussed fibro and LC. I will post it here. THere are a lot of real people finding relief through LC and vitamin D....I'll be right back.

Here ya go...See if there is anything here that helps:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=47
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-26-2010 08:34 AM


Expert Low-Carber



Here ya go...See if there is anything here that helps:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdisplay.php?f=47
Thanks so much Mary. I will be reading all of this and trying to figure out what will work for me.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-26-2010 02:23 PM


Expert Low-Carber


GG, I'm rootin' for ya.
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-27-2010 01:44 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Thanks for the support Mary. I guess it will be trial and error to find what works for me. Lots of info on the site you suggested. I appreciate it.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-28-2010 11:14 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Google Scholar search for Fibromyalgia "vitamin d" brings up a lot of research papers making a connection.
Because the symptoms of Vitamin D deficiency and Fibromyalgia overlap it is possible that you could have either or both.
Only after you have had a 25(OH)D test showing you have a vitamin D level of above 40ng/ml will you be able to rule out the possibility vitamin D deficiency may be contributing to you current symptoms. If you have been taking an EFFECTIVE amount of vitamin D3 (at least 4000iu/daily ideally 1000iu/daily for each 25lbs you weigh) for at least 9 months then it's unlikely you'll be vitamin D deficient but because atmospheric pollution is so bad now it's possible even regular sun exposure isn't sufficient especially if you only expose face & arms.

A similar google Scholar search for Fibromyalgia magnesium produces a similar amount of material making a connection. Magnesium deficiency is as common as vitamin D deficiency and as easy and cheap to correct. Doing so in conjunction with improving vitamin D status is worthwhile as the first thing that happens as 25(OH)D levels improve is you absorb more calcium from your diet. Calcium requires magnesium to counterbalance it's actions. Calcium tenses muscle fibres, magnesium relaxes them. too much calcium in relation to magnesium may cause cramps.
Calcium excites brain neurones and magnesium calms them. Excess calcium therefore leave you edgy and needing magnesium to get a good nights sleep.
Krispin has good information on correcting magnesium deficiency

Both vitamin D3 and magnesium are ANTI INFLAMMATORY agents that work throughout the body (including in the brain) A further Scholar search for fibromyalgia inflammation produces and even longer list of possible connections.
It follows that every effort to reduce your pro inflammatory level (improving omega 3 levels while eliminating omega 6 seed oils) may all help reduce the level of inflammation and the pain you experience.
I'd also suggest you consider trying to improve circadian rhythm by having a dark bedroom, using dim lights in the evening before bedtime and getting outside during the day (ideally at least 4hrs outdoors) to iimprove the natural secretion of melatonin at night and switch it off during the day.
Melatonin is as safe to supplement with as magnesium and vitamin D3 so consider that, you may find it has fewer side effects than the doctors suggestion.
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-28-2010 05:28 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Ted, thanks for the info. I have been taking D3 for over a year now. I also have to take Actonel 150 mg once a month for osteopenia. Should I be taking Mag citrate or Mag oxide. I have seen both in different studies. I am not sure which will work best.

I am having lots of muscle cramps in my legs every single day. I am open for any and all suggestions. Dr. has put me on Nortryptoline. Starting at 25 mg and going up to 3 g nitely. Don't know how that will work. We will see.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-28-2010 07:07 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Results indicated relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide (fractional absorption 4 per cent) but significantly higher and equivalent bioavailability of magnesium chloride, magnesium lactate and magnesium
aspartate.


Magnesium Malate is quite good or the Albion Patent chelates Krispin recommends.

Quote:I am having lots of muscle cramps in my legs every single day.
"Magnesium Oil"can be used to make a Magnesium bath a 20minute soak may well relax the muscles.

Quote: Dr. has put me on Nortryptoline. Starting at 25 mg and going up to 3 g nitely. Don't know how that will work. We will see
amitriptyline (from which Nortryptoline was developed) works as an anti inflammatory agent (which is why it's used for pain relief)
Vitamin D3 Magnesium and Omega 3 are also anti inflammatory agents but there are no adverse side effects from taking reasonable amounts of omega 3.
Providing you get at least 1g of omega 3 about EPA + DHA DAILY
EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) 800 mg
DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid) 500 mg
Total omega 3 1300mg per teaspoon.
You would also need to eliminate all omega 6 industrial seed oils as above 5% they overwhelm and displace omega 3.
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-28-2010 07:49 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Thanks for the info, Ted. I will visit the health food store later or tomorrow and see what I can find. I guess I can use up the epsom salts to soak in as it has magnesium in it as well.

There is just SO MUCH info out there. I can't absorb it all and I stay confused most of the time. A lot of it is so contradictory that you just don't know what to believe or what to go with. And I definitley don't understand the science of it all. My brain does not compute.8-P

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 07-29-2010 09:38 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Indeed Epsom Salts is the traditional magnesium salts that people went to Spar's to bathe in and some of the people offering "Floatation Therapy" use Epsom Salts and some use Dead Sea Salts. It's possible Epsom Salts (although a bit more expensive) could be better as both the magnesium and the sulphate may assist arthritis type conditions.

Quote:There is just SO MUCH info out there. I can't absorb it all and I stay confused most of the time. A lot of it is so contradictory that you just don't know what to believe or what to go with. And I definitley don't understand the science of it all. My brain does not compute.8-P
That's the problem But applying common sense and thinking back to the circumstances in which our DNA evolved gives a good idea of what over the last 50 yrs has changed to make us more reliant of drug based therapies. Pain is the result of inflammation or the inflammatory response. So having a NATURAL (equivalent to the level early humans enjoyed) anti inflammatory status is a good starting point.
Hence the importance of Vitamin D3, higher Omega 3 lower omega 6, a good melatonin level (from circadian rhythm or supplement in the evening, higher magnesium intakes and a low carbohydrate diet.

It is unlikely that paleo or even modern humans suffer Nortriptyline deficiency so we must ask why such anti inflammatory drugs are required in such large amounts now.
It may be great being able to watch TV or use the PC late into the night but what is that doing to our circadian rhythm and our inflammatory status?
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-04-2010 05:57 PM


Expert Low-Carber


I have had Fibro for years. Sometimes bad sometimes not.
Do a search for Dominie's Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue ---so much info
as always some things work better for some people and not for others...keep trying

Glittergal
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-04-2010 11:21 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Do a search for Dominie's Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue ---so much info
as always some things work better for some people and not for others...keep trying

Glittergal
Thanks

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-08-2010 10:45 AM


Advanced Low-Carber


Just want to pop in here and respond to your mention of being prescribed nortriptyline for sleep, sleep which should help with fibromyalgia. Here's my big-picture take on that:

In 2007, shortly after entering menopause, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. I have used a CPAP for three years, and the results are iffy. Some days I have a lot of energy, some days I have none.

In 2007, I started a very stressful job. I have adjusted to a lot of things in my job, but there have been days, especially recently, when I have gotten home from work dog-tired AND with my joints aching.

Last year, my primary care doctor tried to convince me that I was suffering from depression. She said that poor sleep and waking up early (features of my life) are signs of depression. I insisted that they were signs of poorly treated sleep apnea and work stress.

The doctor said that nortryptiline was prescribed for sleep and would help me. She gave me a prescription that I was supposed to ramp into: take a dose for a week, up the dose, up it again until reaching the prescribed amount. She did not dwell on side effects, just said it was an old standby in the world of anti-depressants.

I started taking my prescription on a Saturday.

On Monday, I was surprised by how calm and objective I was about a lot of usually crazy-making stuff at work.

On Thursday, I was telling myself I didn't give a darn about what happened at work.

On the next Saturday, when I was at a church conference for women, I was telling myself that trying to cope with work or with anything in life was useless. And I was falling asleep in the middle of all the seminars I attended.

On Sunday, while talking with a friend who has always been understanding and supportive, I started screaming at her. When I calmed down, we both agreed that I should stop taking nortryptiline. I stopped that day and called the doctor's office to leave a message that I had stopped.

Since then, I have learned about Vitamin D3 and about Omega 3 fatty acids. I take both. Three thousand milligrams of Omega 3s from fish oil has helped me a lot both in terms of mood and in terms of the physical effects of work stress--namely, inflammation, aches, and fatigue.

Avoiding any non-sugar sweeteners except Truvia has helped with mental and physical focus and energy. Avoiding any grain products has helped with symptoms of fatigue.

I have thought that, if I could entirely avoid grain-fed beef and eggs, that would be very good, but I have absolutely no access to local sources of those items, and I sure as poop am not going to pay to have those kinds of things shipped.

In conclusion, I definitely don't like nortryptiline for sleep, mood, or anything else. I like Omega 3s. I find that avoiding most artificial sweeteners AND grain products helps a lot with mental and physical functioning.

Doing gentle stretching exercises and deep breathing has also helped immensely.

I hope what I've said has made sense and has in some way been useful.

Edith
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-08-2010 09:53 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Thanks for your take on the nortriptyline, Edith. I am on my second bump up(50mg) per night. I take it before going to bed. I don't think I have any ill effects from it yet. Hopefully, I won't have any. I have been taking Vit D3 over a year ago and a while back Omega 3's. Not doing the job. I am hurting all over. Muscles, nerves, joints. I can't stand it. I go back to the rheumatologist on Wed. I will see what else he has to offer. I am not one to want to take meds if I can keep from it. But I need to DO something about this NOW! It has been years that I have suffered with this and not known what it was. I am very greatful that I now know the why, now I need to know the, "how do I get rid of this feeling.".

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-09-2010 03:03 PM


Expert Low-Carber


GatorGal, I would like to add something about vitamin D3...make sure that you are taking enough. Everyone is different. Just through observation, a healthy person does well on 10,000 IUs daily. If you are taking less, it probably is not enough. Have your levels checked by the 25 (OH) D test and supplement accordingly. If you are still suffering symptoms, your dosage might be too low. I say this because I have been taking a rather high dose of vitamin D3 and I noticed that my seasonal allergies are barely noticeable. When I have symptoms of allergies, sneezing, runny nose, I increase my vitamin D and those light symptoms vanish. Now, I know fibro is completely different from allergies but fibromyalgia is one of the things that is helped with vitamin D. My daughter who has asthma began taking large doses of vitamin D3 ( 50,000 IUs ) she has not had an attack since she began the larger dose. She has had weezing and I believe that if she were take increase her supplement when she gets the weezing, that would also disappear...but instead she yelled at me
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-09-2010 03:06 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Indeed Epsom Salts is the traditional magnesium salts that people went to Spar's to bathe in and some of the people offering "Floatation Therapy" use Epsom Salts and some use Dead Sea Salts. It's possible Epsom Salts (although a bit more expensive) could be better as both the magnesium and the sulphate may assist arthritis type conditions.

Quote:There is just SO MUCH info out there. I can't absorb it all and I stay confused most of the time. A lot of it is so contradictory that you just don't know what to believe or what to go with. And I definitley don't understand the science of it all. My brain does not compute.8-P
That's the problem But applying common sense and thinking back to the circumstances in which our DNA evolved gives a good idea of what over the last 50 yrs has changed to make us more reliant of drug based therapies. Pain is the result of inflammation or the inflammatory response. So having a NATURAL (equivalent to the level early humans enjoyed) anti inflammatory status is a good starting point.
Hence the importance of Vitamin D3, higher Omega 3 lower omega 6, a good melatonin level (from circadian rhythm or supplement in the evening, higher magnesium intakes and a low carbohydrate diet.

It is unlikely that paleo or even modern humans suffer Nortriptyline deficiency so we must ask why such anti inflammatory drugs are required in such large amounts now.
It may be great being able to watch TV or use the PC late into the night but what is that doing to our circadian rhythm and our inflammatory status?
This is such a good post Ted. I finally found some mag aspartate but I notice that it also contains mag oxide. Ughhh. I'm going to start taking it and see how it goes.
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-10-2010 05:43 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Thanks for your post on the D3 Mary. I go for blood work in Sept. I will have it checked then and adjust if necessary.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-15-2010 05:30 PM


Senior Low-Carber


Gator I hesitate to add this but you sound so much like my daughter did. Could you be glut in sensitive. I know you are low carb but there is gluten in all kinds of things including low carb stuff. One thing you didn't say and if it's to much 411 please this is a rhetorical question. Violent diarrhea? Just a thot. Prayers! Karen
RE: Fibromyalgia , 08-16-2010 12:46 AM


Expert Low-Carber



Karen, thanks for your input. Don't know about glutin sensitivity, but I do look for things that say gluten free. No violent diarrhea. That was pre LC. Used to have to run to the bathroom before I finished a meal. None of that since starting LC. Stomach is so much better now. Trying everything I can think of and tired of being tired. Dr. took me off of Prozac and gave me nortryptiline. Went back to him Wed. and he took me off of the nortryptiline and gave me Requip for before bed and flexaril twice a day for muscle tightness. I feel like I am about to jump out of my skin all the time. I really need to find an answer. I am miserable. Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thanks.

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP

BIG HUGS FROM THE SWAMP