Cholesterol gone beserk
Cholesterol gone beserk , 11-25-2011 11:31 PM


Junior Low-Carber


Hi sure would appreciate some ideas to bounce off...


I have diabetes type 2, always controlled by diet only 100 carbs per day max.

My hb1ac for the last 3 years has been around Hb1ac 5.8.So my sugars are fairly well controlled.No meds for the diabetes.
I have hypothyroidism too.I am on medication for that (eltroxin T4) 50 mcg.


The numbers for the thyroid tests now show all is good , but I still have thyroid issues, It gives me a few off days .


I think Because of the hypthyroidism my Total cholesterol was raised,

Total Cholesterol 7 mmol/L = 273 mg/dL


Triglerides: 2.8 mmol/L = 249.2 mg/dL


So crestor (Statin) was prescribed It worked but I came of it around 3 months ago as I felt it gave me side affects.


So I thought I would try high fat very low carb.

my plan is very lowcarb , and high fat,circa 20 carbs per day in total.

I am only about 10 pounds 4 kilo overweight max.

My aim is to lower my cholesterol without statins if possible, and to loose a few kilos,And reduce my Hb1ac.

ON the high fat diet my sugar level has improved by at least 20 percent, I see this clearly on my daily checks.
I expect my next HB1ac to be around 5 next time..



"THE uK AND THE usA MEASUREMENTS ARE SHOWN ".



MY question is the big rise in LDL normal has any one else experienced this , or any ideas I can reflect on.?

MY total cholesterol and HDL have gone "beserk" , but triglycerides have lowered

Total Cholesterol: << this was taken two weeks ago the third week into my very low carb high fat diet,
9.8 mmol/L = 382.2 mg/dL

LDL Cholesterol:
7.6 mmol/L = 296.4 mg/dL ~ My ldl has basically doubled here

HDL Cholesterol:
1.46 mmol/L = 56.94 mg/dL slight improvement here

triglycerides:
1.54 mmol/L = 137.06 mg/dL big improvement here THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN SO LOW



Test taken on 29/07/2011 <<<< Before the very low carb high fat diet.


Total Cholesterol:
5.8 mmol/L = 226.2 mg/dL

LDL Cholesterol:
3.4 mmol/L = 132.6 mg/dL

HDL Cholesterol:
1.37 mmol/L = 53.43 mg/dL

triglycerides:
2.25 mmol/L = 200.25 mg/dL


somebloke



============================
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk ¿¿¿¿ , 11-26-2011 10:58 AM


Expert Low-Carber


RE: Cholesterol gone beserk ¿¿¿¿ , 11-26-2011 12:58 PM


Junior Low-Carber



Dr Davis on Triglycerides

You may find Dr Davis on niacin and HDL worth reading.
Ted thanks for the links , I skimmed through, It appears there are so many co-factors to come to a conclusion, or an obvious path , IMHO,

Perhaps it could be the test was done only 3 weeks into the LCHF diet,??

or maybe even A T3 Issue,

but I sure would like to hear from others that have had a similar experience too,

Any body taking a statin while low carbing.?? ( Just till the lipid profile pans out nicely)

And I may take a slow release Aspirin 75 mg daily to keep the blood slightly thinner for a good flow,this is often recommended for diabetics.

Any thoughts ?/

Side note Ted I have read quite a few of your posts ,
And like many others I do appreciate your input.


Flash update just found this ####


http://www.centerforpreventivemedicine.c...senger.pdf

I focused on ~ my triglycerides are just below 140 hmm am i counting my chickens ??
,
Austin has shown that
those with TG above 140
have small, dense LDL and
may be classified as LDL
phenotype B on the basis of
TG alone3.





best of luck
chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk ¿¿¿¿ , 11-29-2011 07:54 PM


Expert Low-Carber


Dr. Davis has a theory about why your labs may look this way.

Also, if your A1C levels are going down the elated LDL may not be all small particle LDL.

You should also read what Dr. Davis has to say on fish oil--that can help to bring down your triglycerides. And he is also a big proponent of T3.

(Can you tell I've been reading all the archives on that site lately?).
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk ¿¿¿¿ , 11-30-2011 01:16 PM


Unregistered

 
It's not that complicated.

Mine was whack too when I was on T4.

Get off the T4. Dont spend too much time figuring it out, just do it.

If you have to, switch drs.

Find an endo that knows how to prescribe a T3/T4 combo or T3 alone (this is what I do).

The last time I had the tests, my good cholesterol was way high and bad way low. Something worked. Insulin is <3.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-01-2011 08:53 AM


Junior Low-Carber


Janknitz #thanks I must have missed the ARTICLE ON T3

on DR davis's site
will check it again.


DFH #
you mention T3 I sure will look into this , do you know of a way to verify if T3 is actually required , as it appears to me that ideally T3 converts to T4 for use,



best of luck
chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-01-2011 09:27 AM


Unregistered

 
All you need is an endo that understands why you test for T3, and not so much TSH.

T3 is a better indicator of thyroid function.

T4 converts to T3, not the other way around.

Most drs are trying to use synthetic T4 and just watch TSH. They don't even look at T3, because they don't know what to do with it.

I haven't taken T4 since 2007, when health turned around. No one will ever talk me into using it again.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-01-2011 12:43 PM


Junior Low-Carber


DFH thanks for the insight, it is appreciated, would T3 lower the cholesterol , or make one feel better.

Or most likely both. /?

These were my latest readings a circa 3 weeks ago,
I am on 50 mcg thyroxine.Once daily
TSH 2.15 mU/L (0.4 -4.0 mU/L)

Free T4 16.6 pmol/L (8.5- 22pmol/L)

Free T3 2.8 pmol/L (2.8 -6.5 pmol/L)

Potassium 3.8 mmol range ( 3.5 -5.0)

best of luck
chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-01-2011 11:51 PM


Unregistered

 
I made a lot of changes at the same time, but T3 instead of T4 was one of the main changes.

Cholesterol numbers were pretty bad, insulin was high, adrenals were shot, vitamin D low, weight 315, reverse T3 was high and T3 low. My doc got everything turned around. Look st the site in my sig and read the My Diet and Plan page.

So yeah, if you do the right things when you get off T4, cholesterol can go from bad to excellent.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-02-2011 07:20 AM


Junior Low-Carber


Thanks for , the info DFH,
I will be going through your site,


by the way when my D levels were low 2 weeks in Spain made a massive differance,
I was advised that when they are "quite" low the best and safest ,way to get them up is real sunshine then after that take supplements.

best of luck,

chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-02-2011 07:33 AM


Expert Low-Carber


I was advised that when they are "quite" low the best and safest ,way to get them up is real sunshine then after that take supplements, While I agree with the use of sun/uvb exposure to raise status I think we have to avoid sunburn at all times AND remember it's better to RAISE your vitamin d status BEFORE you go on your winter sunshine holiday.
One of the functions of Vitamin D3 is to help regulate our immune function and it works by regulating immune response in relation to the resources available and it takes a while to recalibrate it's response to a change in vitamin d reserves.
There is some Finnish research showing increased prostate cancer in those with the highest change in vitamin d status over the year and it's thought it's better to maintain a high stable 25(OH)D than have fluctuations between high/low levels. The more time the immune response is out of line with the resources available the more chance of an over/under reaction. It has been known for people to fly South for a short winter sun holiday only to catch a viral infection from the recycled air in the cabin on the return flight because their immune system hasn't yet had time to recalibrate itself.
So it may be better to take your vitamin D3 BEFORE (it also helps improve photo-protection) your holiday, and then resume the supplements on your return.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-02-2011 09:02 AM


Unregistered

 
I was advised that when they are "quite" low the best and safest ,way to get them up is real sunshine then after that take supplements, While I agree with the use of sun/uvb exposure to raise status I think we have to avoid sunburn at all times AND remember it's better to RAISE your vitamin d status BEFORE you go on your winter sunshine holiday.
One of the functions of Vitamin D3 is to help regulate our immune function and it works by regulating immune response in relation to the resources available and it takes a while to recalibrate it's response to a change in vitamin d reserves.
There is some Finnish research showing increased prostate cancer in those with the highest change in vitamin d status over the year and it's thought it's better to maintain a high stable 25(OH)D than have fluctuations between high/low levels. The more time the immune response is out of line with the resources available the more chance of an over/under reaction. It has been known for people to fly South for a short winter sun holiday only to catch a viral infection from the recycled air in the cabin on the return flight because their immune system hasn't yet had time to recalibrate itself.
So it may be better to take your vitamin D3 BEFORE (it also helps improve photo-protection) your holiday, and then resume the supplements on your return. Agree. A lot of folks resist taking D because they think that taking supplements is like surrendering.

I never understood that logic. If your numbers are low, do what it takes to get them in line. I have been doing 10,000 IU for 4 years now and it's in range. I don't miss chronic sinusitis, which I haven't had since
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-04-2011 12:26 AM


Junior Low-Carber


Thanks, for your insight Ted & DFH it is appreciated,

Avoiding sunburn is a good idea indeed.

I read a few articles mentioning ,the Middays sun's UVB rays are most effective at synthesising vitamin D.

And to stay in the direct sunlight till the skin goes lightly red but not burn ,

also to stay out of a swimming (clorine pool) for the next few hours

A colleauge showed me an article regarding the sunshine and vitamin D

"RE: the best and safest ,way to get them up is real sunshine then after that take supplements"

to the best of my recollection the article was from Dr David grimes.

The Finnish research may well supersede, previous concepts.

best of luck

chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-04-2011 06:35 AM


Expert Low-Carber


Association between serum cholesterol and noncardiovascular mortality in older age.Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults. This association varied across the late-life span and was stronger in older age groups.
Bear in mind this is for Adults aged 55 to 99
Age- and sex-adjusted analyses showed that each 1-mmol/L increase in total cholesterol was associated with an approximately 12% lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality
Age group-specific analyses demonstrated that this association reached significance after the age of 65 and increased in magnitude across each subsequent decade.
This was driven largely by non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (non-HDL-C) and was partly attributable to cancer mortality.
Conversely, HDL-C was not significantly associated with noncardiovascular mortality

So as I'm over 65 it applies to me.

For each increase in total cholesterol I lower my risk of noncardiovascular mortality so live longer.

Or I could choose to lower my TC and increase my risk of death and enjoy a wide variety of quite nasty side effects?

Sad isn't it how many people enjoy making themselves ill and just love shortening their lives taking statins. It's amazing how many people are so gullible when it comes to believing adverts.

Much as I like Dr Grimes and admire his courage in speaking out about the failure to correct vitamin d deficiency in the UK and agree with his views on statins, I think it is COMMON SENSE to raise vitamin D BEFORE going for a winter sunshine holiday BECAUSE of
]The photoprotective effect of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 on ultraviolet light B-induced damage in keratinocyte and its mechanism of action.
Most people who raise their vitamin D status BEFORE they go start sunbathing find their skin starts to tan quicker as well and the tanning process also adds to the skins natural photoprotection.

I'm not suggesting you hold off getting UVB exposure until after you've raised your 25(OH)D. I'm saying you shouldn't delay using supplements until you've been on holiday. The sooner you start the sooner your skin will improve it's natural ability to withstand UVB and that process needs time so ideally the sooner you start on effective strength D3 the less chance your skin has of burning.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-04-2011 05:38 PM


Junior Low-Carber


sure hope this will apply to me in the future , as I am 48



Association between serum cholesterol and noncardiovascular mortality in older age.Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults. This association varied across the late-life span and was stronger in older age groups.
Bear in mind this is for Adults aged 55 to 99

I am still looking in to T3, Or T3 T4 or a combo for my hypothyroidism as it appears it can help with LDL reduction,(currently on T4 only).

Nicotinic acid or niacin may be an option too I am looking into this too, but as i understand it is not for diabetics , even though my diabetes is controlled with diet alone.

I expect good quality fish oil will reduce LDL, as it appears fish oil in some has no benefit,
I expect in those cases the fish oil may be rancid.


goodluck

chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-04-2011 06:43 PM


Unregistered

 
If you are looking for stuff to read on T3, here is a page-
http://www.holtorfmed.com/handouts.html
Click the Thyroid section.
This is the doc's office that got me sorted out.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-05-2011 08:21 AM


Junior Low-Carber


http://www.holtorfmed.com/handouts.html
Click the Thyroid section.
This is the doc's office that got me sorted out.

Thanks DFH , that was a great source of information in a nutshell,

As I am in Ireland Dublin , that clinic is not an option , but if i find a comparable Endo or Doctor in Ireland or Uk that would be ideal, T3 certainly does seem to be a key factor.

goodluck

chessguy
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-05-2011 10:04 AM


Unregistered

 
They have a lot of international patients and you can work via phone, but still need to show up in person once in a while. A friend of mine from the UK started doing that. It gets expensive.

Mary Shomon writes a blog on thyroid and she keeps up with what drs do what. Google Mary Shomon and look for a dr list.

You want to know what your T3 and reverse T3 (rT3) numbers are to see if thyroid is really in line. TSH is a poor test. You want a dr that will check these and knows what to do.
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-06-2011 08:53 PM


Expert Low-Carber


@Chessguy:


You might care to have a look at some of Ray Peat's articles on thyroid:

http://raypeat.com/articles/


He's fairly controversial in many respects, but seems to have studied thyroid in some depth, and at least some of the things he says would be in line with some of the comments in this thread (e.g. it's T3 one should be concentrating on, not TSH or T4).


He says that cholesterol can rise as a stress response and in response to a depressed thyroid function; it's part of the body's self-healing process (and so artificially reducing it with statins isn't really a good idea).

For actual thyroid supplements he talks about Cytomel or Cynomel (a Mexican equivalent).

(He says the best one was the original natural thyroid version of Armour Thyroid, but it's no longer available, and the current one of the same name is synthetic).

Some dietary ways to help promote thyroid function:

-Virgin coconut oil
-Salt
-Calcium (in the diet, not supplements, although he thinks powdered egg-shell is good).
-milk has some thyroid hormone in it (as well as calcium of course).
-long-grated raw carrot - not at meal times - natural antibiotic effect on the gut reduces gut toxins and promotes thyroid.


He would go along with vitamin D3, but don't forget vitamin K1 & K2, and vitamin A.
(Don't take synthetic vitamin A, but get it from e.g. liver, egg yolks, butter, which can also provide vitamin K2, and also choline).

For various minerals and vitamins, he recommends liver and non-oily fish once or twice a week.


EDIT: While fully accepting Ted's point about higher total cholesterol levels being associated with reduced mortality as people grow older, it's also the case that if your cholesterol "goes beserk" it's worth looking at why (and you are still a relatively young man from where I'm standing :-) ). I seem to remember that the mortality curve starts going up again once cholesterol rises above a certain level and I think the best mortality figures go with TC in the 200s (US units) rather than the 300s.

Plus, as I think we all realise, you can't be in the best of health unless your thyroid is functioning optimally. It's not the only thing, of course, but if it's out of whack, whatever else you try probably won't work as well as it might otherwise do.


RP also says to measure your body temperature (waking and daytime) and pulse rate, to get a handle on your thyroid status. It's by no means definitive, but it provides a couple more clues, together with cold hands/feet (or not).
(He's not a fan of low pulse rates, by the way).
RE: Cholesterol gone beserk , 12-07-2011 10:20 AM


Unregistered

 
Good notes.

I don't agree with the milk. My doc doesn't either, but I was looking at high insulin and trigs too.